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TOPIC: Phantom node clusters

Phantom node clusters 2 weeks, 1 day ago #221076

  • Bertbear
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Howdy.

I keep getting unwanted sound level nodes appearing in my tracks. They appear randomly sometimes two or three clips away or many minutes down the time line. They appear as clusters of four usually dropping the sound level for a few seconds then jumping back up again. More concerning is a cascade effect where previous mixing work is obliterated all the way down the timeline.

This is a serious issue when preparing rough cuts for screenings of feature length material (as I am) because I'm having to spend many, many hours remixing work that was previously ready.

Need immediate help with this please!


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Bert

Re: Phantom node clusters 2 weeks, 1 day ago #221079

  • briandrys
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That shouldn't be happening/

Is it intended that there's a sharp change in level at a certain points?

The original level line does remain in both the fixed and flexible layouts.
Last Edit: 2 weeks, 1 day ago by briandrys.

Re: Phantom node clusters 2 weeks, 1 day ago #221080

  • hugly
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That shouldn't be happening indeed, but automatically (not manually) set audio nodes can exist, on cut points.

You've posted this screenshot already 4 weeks ago in beta forums and I remember a short discussion on it. I'm still not sure how this can happen.

Could it be that what you show are Sync objects from sequences with already adjusted sound levels and cut points exactly where these nodes appear?
It's better to travel well than to arrive...

Re: Phantom node clusters 2 weeks, 1 day ago #221081

  • briandrys
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However, I notice that it also occurs in V14.5.

I don't know if it's intended as a reference line.

It's not there in the User Guide, which I assume was made from V14 or an earlier version.
Last Edit: 2 weeks, 1 day ago by briandrys.

Re: Phantom node clusters 2 weeks, 1 day ago #221082

  • hugly
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Nodes set by the system when cutting aren't new, indeed. Lightworks creates auxiliary nodes on cut points and exposes them to the user. I'm pretty sure that the shown jumps on track sound level are clearly audible. The question is, how can this happen without cuts?

The shown objects are apparently syncs. The most obvious explanation is that the sequence(s) used to create the syncs have cuts.

To reveal the original clips on the timeline with 2020.1, make a copy of the sequence with the option 'Trace' enabled.
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Re: Phantom node clusters 2 weeks, 1 day ago #221084

  • Bertbear
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Thanks for the feedback gents.

So.
The abrupt jumps in levels are not intentional; in fact I've not used such a jump intentionally anywhere in the cut.
The points do not correspond to cut points in trace back sequences and they seem to slide the nodes I have put in place if I make changes in that track up stream. I've also been seeing these (attached). Dark nodes that won't always vanish when deleted. To remove these I need to reset that segment. In some extreme cases I'll have multiple collections of both. I just have to reset all clips affected and start again.
Cant find anything in the manual about the dark nodes but they do seem to react as 'full stops' to a node sequence.
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Re: Phantom node clusters 2 weeks, 1 day ago #221087

  • hugly
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What I see here is this:

Before

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After

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Without further touching the nodes and level adjustments, they carry over from sequences to syncs, which don't show the cuts.
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Last Edit: 2 weeks, 1 day ago by hugly.

Re: Phantom node clusters 2 weeks, 1 day ago #221093

  • hugly
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Now, when adjusting those nodes on the sync, without adding any, like this:

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A trace of the above looks as follows - something quite different.

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That's unexpected behaviour, at least from a user's point of view. Who ca be aware, except of the developer, which logic the underling code is ruled by.

Unfortunately, I have no good idea how to work against those issues other than adjusting sound levels with nodes as the very last step prior to delivery. I know that's highly inconvenient and by no means state of the art, but I have no better idea.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 2 weeks, 1 day ago by hugly.

Re: Phantom node clusters 2 weeks, 1 day ago #221101

  • Bertbear
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Thats interesting hugly. In #221087 that is how this problem manifests although I am not cutting pure trace back syncs. There are some Multicam interview blocks that are syncs and they do exist in this first full rough cut but they are miles away from where I'm working on the timeline. Further to this - this problem has also manifest in fresh individual scene sequences where no syncs are present. It seems that as soon as I start applying any of my own mixing nodes the clusters will begin forming down stream.

Re: Phantom node clusters 2 weeks, 1 day ago #221104

  • hugly
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Since I'm aware of some issues when trimming/cutting with audio nodes present on timeline, my personal approach is starting to adjust audio levels with nodes after editing.

To adjust clips to some audible level while editing, I use 'Clip Gain', which affects the whole segment without settings nodes. You can even set it from the source viewer while logging media.

Based on some earlier discussions and reports/requests, I think developers are well aware of most of the issues. I'm guessing that the existing code base is very old and hard to fix by modifying, unless someone decides to apply the solution of the Gordian Knot: Discard the existing and start from scratch.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 2 weeks, 1 day ago by hugly.
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