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TOPIC: VFX keeps adding more and more FX - Tracks and meeses with relation to FX -track-id

VFX keeps adding more and more FX - Tracks and meeses with relation to FX -track-id 1 month, 1 week ago #225201

  • bodo.te
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I have 5 video tracks and 18 VX on a short part of my video.
each video track has first a ChromaKey, then ColorCorrection then DVE .
In addition there is a ColorMatte for the background.

Actually for easy navigation, I wanna have track FX1 for Video1, FX2 track for Video 2 and so on.
Then in each FX track only the FX for the video track with same channel number.
But no matter what , when I add a FX , even when I disable all but the FX track i wanted it to be placed in, Lwks puts it either in another random FX track or even worse, keeps adding more and more FX-Tracks until there is not longer any relation FX-Track-id to video-track id
This makes tweaking the FX very hard. Each time I need look up which video is in which FX track.
More over the "Routing" panel is also messed up.

Any Idea how to clean this mess up? Or to avoid this in the first place?
See Screenshot attached
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Re: VFX keeps adding more and more FX - Tracks and meeses with relation to FX -track-id 1 month, 1 week ago #225202

  • briandrys
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Are you thinking in nodes? Lightworks uses nodes rather than layers.

Re: VFX keeps adding more and more FX - Tracks and meeses with relation to FX -track-id 1 month, 1 week ago #225206

  • David Rasberry
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Fold fx back into the shots they are associated with. Only fx that are common to multiple shots on a timeline need to be on fx tracks.
Edit fx from nodes in the fx routing page. Right click on nodes to edit them.
Build complex fx sequences a layer at a time and render them to simplify the structure.
An example would be a shot intended for keying, with a green screen matte background and perhaps some green screen masking of portions of the image too, especially a key framed moving mask. Make a sequence of just that shot. Once the matte and masks are dialed in and won’t need changing, render the shot. Then it is much simpler to apply and manage other fx layers.
Razz

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Last Edit: 1 month, 1 week ago by David Rasberry.

Re: VFX keeps adding more and more FX - Tracks and meeses with relation to FX -track-id 1 month, 1 week ago #225337

  • bodo.te
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>Fold fx back into the shots they are associated with
Ok, but how do I do that, except for starting all over again? I've tried all right-click-pop-up menus in all different windows. did'n found anything like that.
even worse: I seem to not have any control, where a new VFX is placed: in a existing FX-track, in a existing Video-track or in a new FX-track.

>Edit fx from nodes in the fx routing page. Right click on nodes to edit them.
ok, but no "fold back to video track"-button there either

>Build complex fx sequences a layer at a time and render them to simplify
>the structure.
>An example would be a shot intended for keying, with a green screen matte
>background and perhaps some green screen masking of portions of the image
>too, especially a key framed moving mask. Make a sequence of just that
>shot.
I thought of that too, but seems that I cannot put a short pre-made sequence in another bigger sequence, right? the only way would be to export as AVC-Intra, but this is "Pro"-license only.  

Only way I found is: delete the VFX from the FX-tracks completely, than add them in a specific way only: drag the VFX from the "+"-tab to the "routing"-tab, drop them in the routing panel and immediately connect it to one of the videos.This seems to determine onto what video track the VFX gets placed into.
Once the VFX is for whatever reason in one of the FX-tracks , there seems to be no way to move it out from there, even not in an different FX-track, right ?

And I need to take care, that when I mess around with the routing, sometimes "magicaly" a VFX jumps in a FX-track. The only way then is the "undo"-command.

Re: VFX keeps adding more and more FX - Tracks and meeses with relation to FX -track-id 1 month, 1 week ago #225338

  • briandrys
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On each segment with an effect, if you right click on it, the timeline menu opens at the top you'll see effect commands. Fold is one of the commands.

Re: VFX keeps adding more and more FX - Tracks and meeses with relation to FX -track-id 1 month, 1 week ago #225340

  • hugly
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Just a hint to improve readability of quotes: To reply with a quote, don't use 'Quick Reply', but hover over the 'Menu' button and click 'Quote', then delete all parts you don't need and add your text outside the [ quote ] [ / quote ] command pair.

Referring to your initial post: In order to make your setup better visible, could you move the red timeline marker to the right into the marked section to get rid of the long connections, which are caused by faulty automatic positioning if pass-through nodes are present, make a new screenshot and post it?
It's better to travel well than to arrive...

Re: VFX keeps adding more and more FX - Tracks and meeses with relation to FX -track-id 1 month, 1 week ago #225373

  • bodo.te
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briandrys wrote:
On each segment with an effect, if you right click on it, the timeline menu opens at the top you'll see effect commands. Fold is one of the commands.

I think I looked everywhere, but still can't find it. You have a screenshot ?
see what i found: the timeline->right-click-pop-up just has "add" under Effects. or if I click on the effect track, I get "Settings..." in addition.
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Last Edit: 1 month, 1 week ago by bodo.te. Reason: typo fixed

Re: VFX keeps adding more and more FX - Tracks and meeses with relation to FX -track-id 1 month, 1 week ago #225374

  • bodo.te
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hugly wrote:

Referring to your initial post: In order to make your setup better visible, could you move the red timeline marker to the right into the marked section to get rid of the long connections, which are caused by faulty automatic positioning if pass-through nodes are present, make a new screenshot and post it?

here you go:
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Re: VFX keeps adding more and more FX - Tracks and meeses with relation to FX -track-id 1 month, 1 week ago #225375

  • hugly
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The menu entry 'Effects.Fold' appears only if all effects on the effects stack to fold have exactly the same position and duration as the segment below. You can drag effect stacks of not matching duration and position with the mouse to fold, but I cannot say if this will create a valid result in this case. Use a copy of your sequence to preserve the original if you wish trying.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...

Re: VFX keeps adding more and more FX - Tracks and meeses with relation to FX -track-id 1 month, 1 week ago #225394

  • David Rasberry
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bodo.te wrote:
>Fold fx back into the shots they are associated with
Ok, but how do I do that, except for starting all over again? I've tried all right-click-pop-up menus in all different windows. did'n found anything like that.
even worse: I seem to not have any control, where a new VFX is placed: in a existing FX-track, in a existing Video-track or in a new FX-track.

>Edit fx from nodes in the fx routing page. Right click on nodes to edit them.
ok, but no "fold back to video track"-button there either

>Build complex fx sequences a layer at a time and render them to simplify
>the structure.
>An example would be a shot intended for keying, with a green screen matte
>background and perhaps some green screen masking of portions of the image
>too, especially a key framed moving mask. Make a sequence of just that
>shot.
I thought of that too, but seems that I cannot put a short pre-made sequence in another bigger sequence, right? the only way would be to export as AVC-Intra, but this is "Pro"-license only.  

Only way I found is: delete the VFX from the FX-tracks completely, than add them in a specific way only: drag the VFX from the "+"-tab to the "routing"-tab, drop them in the routing panel and immediately connect it to one of the videos.This seems to determine onto what video track the VFX gets placed into.
Once the VFX is for whatever reason in one of the FX-tracks , there seems to be no way to move it out from there, even not in an different FX-track, right ?

And I need to take care, that when I mess around with the routing, sometimes "magicaly" a VFX jumps in a FX-track. The only way then is the "undo"-command.


I feel your pain. I recently completed an animation video for a client that involved breaking a single full screen hand drawn animation sequence down into 19 subclips. Each had a mask, matte,and DVE to start with which got composited into a sequence on multiple layers. More than 60 fx elements in the final piece. My first really deep dive into working with Lightworks fx nodes.

So to help with some basic principles:

1. Unfortunately with the free version timeline rendering is not an option.
2. A sequence in Lightworks is treated just like any other video clip. You can assemble a master sequence from multiple sequences without the need to export or render anything. This is a unique and powerful feature of Lightworks.
3. It is easier to build complex multi-layered node fx sequences from the routing menu alone.
4. An fx node gets assigned to the first track connected to its input. The order in which fx are stacked affects what appears in the result. Disconnecting a node can change the track assignments for other nodes above it. Connecting background or foreground first can change the result too. With keys for instance, connect the background first.
5. Build from the bottom up and turn off tracks above the one you are working on to isolate it. It looks like your track order numbering is reversed from the default with track 1 being on bottom. Top most track has visible priority.
6. Complex fx stacks are easier to build and manage in the flexible interface where you can drag fx nodes from the menu into the routing screen and connect them manually in user defined order.

Screen shot below is an effects stack for green screen title keys with 3D DVE and polymask. This illustrates the basic principles outlined above as I laid them out in the flexible interface. FX have to be added to video, hence the video black background on track 2. Can't do this on an empty track.


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Razz

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Last Edit: 1 month, 1 week ago by David Rasberry.

Re: VFX keeps adding more and more FX - Tracks and meeses with relation to FX -track-id 1 month, 1 week ago #225437

  • jwrl
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David Rasberry wrote:
FX have to be added to video, hence the video black background on track 2. Can't do this on an empty track.

That isn't necessarily true if you apply effects using the routing panel. Here's an example that's functionally identical to your example. It uses a custom effect called Title blend fix to correct for the bad blending that you get with the title effect input disconnected, so you no longer need the chromakey. It has the added advantage that it includes smoothing to correct aliassing.

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Alternatively you could also do it this way using another custom effect, Enhanced blend, after the 3D DVE. That also corrects the blending issue, but it doesn't provide smoothing/antialiasing.

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The advantage of both of those is that because you don't need to use a chromakey you don't risk polluting the drop shadow on the title. You also need just a single video layer and you don't need a black source.


PS: I tried posting this when this thread was active, but I gave up after getting error 404s. Also, great to see Marty again after all this time. He's sadly missed.
Last Edit: 1 month ago by jwrl.

Re: VFX keeps adding more and more FX - Tracks and meeses with relation to FX -track-id 1 month, 1 week ago #225440

  • David Rasberry
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Thanks jwrl.

I set up a project to play with FX builds to save for future application.

Learned a lot doing the Scrutineers animation vid, but I'm sure it could have been done in much simpler more efficient ways by the time I got through with it.

I believe in the principle of Occam's Razor. The simplest solution is the best.
Razz

Digital Bolex 2k Cinema DNG raw camera
Canon GL2 DV camcorder
iPAD Mini 3 Iographer rig

Workstation: Intel i7-4770k, Asrock Z87 Thunderbolt 2 MB, 16GB 1866 DDR3 ram,
2TB Seagate Hybrid system drive, 2TB Seagate NAS media drive, E-sata III hot swap drive bay, Nvidia GTX760 2GB GPU
Lightworks kybrd. Shuttlepro v2
Win10 Pro 64bit, Lightworks 14.0 64bit

Mobile Workstation: MSI GTX72 Dominator
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Re: VFX keeps adding more and more FX - Tracks and meeses with relation to FX -track-id 1 month, 1 week ago #225442

  • jwrl
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David Rasberry wrote:
I believe in the principle of Occam's Razor. The simplest solution is the best.

Definitely!

The trick of disconnecting the input to the title effect is extremely handy when you want to manipulate titles in way that the effect won't allow. The downside is that external blending of titles is nowhere near as good as the result you get with the title inline. That's why I wrote those two effects. They're a modified form of unpremultiply and smooth the edges while changing the alpha channel linearity.

I did it without knowing exactly what goes on under the hood with the Lightworks title effect, but I think that I've got fairly close.
Last Edit: 1 month, 1 week ago by jwrl.
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