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TOPIC: Super Slow Motion with low fps

Super Slow Motion with low fps 1 month, 4 weeks ago #224497

  • sharkyboy321
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Hi, I'm quite new to editing. I've recently been interested in slowing down sporting events such as boxing etc to super slow speeds. However, the video becomes very jumpy and you can see each frame playing because the sporting events arent recorded in high fps. It's not smooth. I've done research into AI fps interpolation and downloaded the Dain Alpha software which worked well but my GPU's vram isn't strong enough so my video goes from HD to 240p. Is there any plugins available on Lightworks that can help me with my problem or any software that I can download? Thank you!

Re: Super Slow Motion with low fps 1 month, 4 weeks ago #224501

  • briandrys
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Welcome to the forum.

Please don't double post or your case quadrupole post, it causes confusion. I've deleted your other posts on this subject.

What frame speed do you require?
Last Edit: 1 month, 4 weeks ago by briandrys.

Re: Super Slow Motion with low fps 1 month, 3 weeks ago #224502

  • hugly
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Still, nothing compares to real high fps recordings when it comes to playback in slow motion. For 30 fps, this means capturing with e,g, 120 fps for up to 25% slow motion (factor 4) or 300 fps for up to 10% slow motion (factor 10).

All software I've ever tested, commercial and free, which use frame interpolation for slow motion, create results with more or less visible artifacts, depending on the content. Highly critical are moving objects over moving background (panning camera), which is what most sporting events usually show.

However, I wasn't aware that Nvidia have invented artificial intelligence with deep learning for frame interpolation and, that doesn't look bad at all, at least with the samples they show:



I just downloaded Dain Alpha, which seems to use their technology. I have some really critical clips to test with.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 1 month, 3 weeks ago by hugly.

Re: Super Slow Motion with low fps 1 month, 3 weeks ago #224503

  • schrauber
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Here are some older programs, some from private developers:

If your operating system is Windows, you can test whether the "Assistant Application - AVFlow v1.1" developed by user "khaver" meets your requirements.

If you are using Linux you can probably use "slowmoVideo" (as a separate program to prepare your media before importing it into Lightworks). I have installed an old version of "slowmoVideo", which also works with Windors to a limited extent.

There is always a risk of artifacts when creating synthetic frames. With optimal settings of "slowmoVideo" I thought I saw a little less artifacts than with AVFlow v1.1.
Such synthetic frames based on motion analysis do of course not show reality, so that no additional information is visible.

Even the FFmpeg converter can frame interpolation, but I haven't experimented enough with the parameters.

It is problematic if your original video contains double frames (additional frames generated by the camera or another program, which are only duplicates of the previous frame).

I'm excited to see what results @hugly gets with its NVIDIA tests. (I don't have an NVIDIA graphics card.)
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Software: Lightworks 2020.1.1 & Beta 2021.x; || Windows 10 Home 1909, 64 Bit
Hardware: Intel i5-4440 (3,1 GHz); || RAM: 8 GB; || Intel HD Graphics 4600 (can use max. 2 GB of shared RAM)
Last Edit: 1 month, 3 weeks ago by schrauber.

Re: Super Slow Motion with low fps 1 month, 3 weeks ago #224507

  • hugly
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schrauber wrote:
I'm excited to see what results @hugly gets with its NVIDIA tests. (I don't have an NVIDIA graphics card.)

Unfortunately, that doesn't look promising. Dain-App [Alpha] is what it says, an alpha release. I have the impression that the software has been specified and coded by real amateurs. They show the NVidia logo and ask for a donation at the first place when downloading, but what I see isn't convincing at all, starting with the GUI, followed by incredibly low speed on my Threadripper with GTX 1060 and 6GB VRAM, weird memory issues and not so convincing results, so far. I think the software isn't usable under practical conditions, as it stands now.

If you wish I can share a comparison with the very critical footage attached below between my reference software, Shutter Encoder, which is basically ffmpeg using minterpolate, and Dain-Alpha (if I can finish one render without problems)?
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Re: Super Slow Motion with low fps 1 month, 3 weeks ago #224510

  • schrauber
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hugly wrote:
.. I can share a comparison ..

Might be interesting. But if you say that "Dain-App [Alpha]" is still unstable etc., then the result and the settings of "Shutter Encoder" would be relevant in practice?
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Software: Lightworks 2020.1.1 & Beta 2021.x; || Windows 10 Home 1909, 64 Bit
Hardware: Intel i5-4440 (3,1 GHz); || RAM: 8 GB; || Intel HD Graphics 4600 (can use max. 2 GB of shared RAM)
Last Edit: 1 month, 3 weeks ago by schrauber.

Re: Super Slow Motion with low fps 1 month, 3 weeks ago #224513

  • schrauber
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hugly wrote:
.. very critical footage..


Test my outdated Windows slowmo version 0.3.1 at 20% speed:

This attachment is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Setting: "Two-way interpolation, Convolution Blur"

Strong artifacts, extreme at high speed in the original.

In order for the forum software to accept the file, I reduced the bit rate a lot afterwards, but the artifacts are from the frame interpolation, not from the compressed bit rate.
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Software: Lightworks 2020.1.1 & Beta 2021.x; || Windows 10 Home 1909, 64 Bit
Hardware: Intel i5-4440 (3,1 GHz); || RAM: 8 GB; || Intel HD Graphics 4600 (can use max. 2 GB of shared RAM)
Last Edit: 1 month, 3 weeks ago by schrauber.

Re: Super Slow Motion with low fps 1 month, 3 weeks ago #224515

  • hugly
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Your video looks quite similar to what I see with Shutter Encoder and FFmpeg's minterpolate. However, I used the factor 4, instead of 5.

The result from DainApp looks significantly better. I took 187 minutes (not seconds) to finish rendering. I used the created image sequence in Lightworks to export the attached video.
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Re: Super Slow Motion with low fps 1 month, 3 weeks ago #224522

  • hugly
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For the sake of completeness, I attached the result of my reference app for frame interpolation, with the best available (read slowest) settings. Same source, slowed down to 20%. It rendered the effect in half a minute.

Enocded in HEVC with NVEnc, by the way.
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Last Edit: 1 month, 3 weeks ago by hugly.

Re: Super Slow Motion with low fps 1 month, 3 weeks ago #224525

  • sharkyboy321
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Ok, no problem thankyou. I've downloaded the boxing highlights off youtube so I think the video is at 30fps but I'd like to make my video really slow and smooth. As high a frame speed as possible.

Re: Super Slow Motion with low fps 1 month, 3 weeks ago #224527

  • schrauber
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Thank you.

hugly wrote:
.. The result from DainApp looks significantly better. I took 187 minutes (not seconds) to finish rendering.

Great result!
Can it be that the V-RAM has slowed your graphics card?
Did you also test with 720p instead of 1080p media (maybe lower V-RAM usage?)

...

Here tests with: AVFlow v1.1" :
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(Afterwards converted for the forum)

Tested with these settings:
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Temporary link with the results of other settings: we.tl/t-eCKeEsffmw
Blur 0 led to a problem when starting it videos (jumped back some frames). Maybe it's different if you start the first frame with 100% speed and then ramp down to 20%? But Blur fixes that problem too. (I just found out that I can unlock the fixed points at the beginning and end with the right mouse button).

The GPU results seem better. The GPU load depends mainly on the Blur settings.

I didn't succeed in replacing the effect segment with the rendered video using the functionality of the Assistant Application, but I prefer to import the videos manually anyway.
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Software: Lightworks 2020.1.1 & Beta 2021.x; || Windows 10 Home 1909, 64 Bit
Hardware: Intel i5-4440 (3,1 GHz); || RAM: 8 GB; || Intel HD Graphics 4600 (can use max. 2 GB of shared RAM)
Last Edit: 1 month, 3 weeks ago by schrauber.

Re: Super Slow Motion with low fps 1 month, 3 weeks ago #224530

  • hugly
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schrauber wrote:
Can it be that the V-RAM has slowed your graphics card?
Definitely, but my GTX 1060 is by no means a low end GPU and has 6 GB of VRAM. What do those guys recommend for rendering 1080p24 video at factor 4 with acceptable performance, a recent Quadro 6000 with 24 GB VRAM?

Did you also test with 720p instead of 1080p media (maybe lower V-RAM usage?)

Yes I did, but it crashed three times half way through the process, then I decided to use the 'Fix OutOfMemory Options' to process each frame in 2x2 pieces and switched to 1080p24.

I just started another attempt with 720p24. I'll share it when/if finished. However, rendering is slow. While running, I see 20 minutes for 300 output frames in 720p24 at a factor of 4 (25% slow motion). That's 4 seconds per output frame and 16 seconds per input frame! That's not acceptable for me, for the use cases I have.

Edit: That's shows the load on the GPU, mainly CUDA and VRAM.

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Last Edit: 1 month, 3 weeks ago by hugly.

Re: Super Slow Motion with low fps 1 month, 3 weeks ago #224533

  • schrauber
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@ hugly: Thanks for the info and the screenshot.

hugly wrote:
.. with 24 GB VRAM?
If the trend in recent years in terms of technology and prices for RAM had continued as in the decades before, then this would perhaps be the standard for mid-range computers today.
I only have shared RAM, but I am always disappointed to see current PC advertising with 8 GB CPU RAM, which is exactly the same as my old 500€ PC from 2014.


@ sharkyboy321:
When I published my last post, I had not yet read yours.
I hope our tests of the different programs do not confuse you too much.

sharkyboy321 wrote:
[..] I think the video is at 30fps but I'd like to make my video really slow and smooth. As high a frame speed as possible.

The programs discussed here slow down the video automatically, so that mostly files with normal constant frame rate of e.g. 24 or 30 fps are created, although the number of frames is multiplied (the runtime is multiplied).
You can slow it down almost indefinitely, and with an optimal original it will still remain smooth. Whether or not artifacts are created depends mainly on the original material and the program. But too slow (10% or less) makes the result usually boring, because only frames are interpolated, unlike real high speed recordings.
With some of the programs you can change the speed dynamically.


Some program links are probably still missing:

hugly wrote:
.. my reference app for frame interpolation ..

I suppose you mean : www.shutterencoder.com

@ sharkyboy321: Under point 10 of the FAQ you will find: "How to create a super-slowmotion?"
As far as I can see, this results in a constant reduced speed per exported file. If necessary, increased speed settings in Lightworks could be used to make subsequent adjustments (but any normal speed change in the Lightworks timeline requires a cut).
Mainly automatically translated
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Software: Lightworks 2020.1.1 & Beta 2021.x; || Windows 10 Home 1909, 64 Bit
Hardware: Intel i5-4440 (3,1 GHz); || RAM: 8 GB; || Intel HD Graphics 4600 (can use max. 2 GB of shared RAM)
Last Edit: 1 month, 3 weeks ago by schrauber.

Re: Super Slow Motion with low fps 1 month, 3 weeks ago #224535

  • hugly
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schrauber wrote:
Some program links are probably still missing:

hugly wrote:
.. my reference app for frame interpolation ..

I suppose you mean : www.shutterencoder.com "

I cannot link to the program here. Mediainfo will tell you what it is.
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Last Edit: 1 month, 3 weeks ago by hugly.

Re: Super Slow Motion with low fps 1 month, 3 weeks ago #224544

  • hugly
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As mentioned, nothing compares to the real thing, high frame rate recording, here's one example:

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