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TOPIC: orange filter B/W effect

orange filter B/W effect 5 months, 1 week ago #215780

  • kalimerox
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I was wondering if there is a way to achieve the effect of a orange / red filter in analog B/W photography, where on landscape photography the sky gets dark or black (as red filter absorbs blue light) and the clouds become white (like in the first example picture on this site : www.photographymad.com/pages/view/using-coloured-filters-in-black-and-white-photography)

Re: orange filter B/W effect 5 months, 1 week ago #215781

  • hugly
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You can do that with the build in 'Greyscale' filter, but doing it digitally will never feel like the real thing, captured on black and white film with a red filter, self developed and printed in a dark room.

Edit: the build-in Greyscale fiter alone cannot be used for that.
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Last Edit: 5 months, 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: orange filter B/W effect 5 months, 1 week ago #215783

  • kalimerox
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thanks hugly. I was a big fan of bw photography and darkroom work. And I thought it is hard to come close, especially when treating just flat normally recorded material, it will be hard to achieve similar effects in post. playing around with the greyscale gives me interesting results. but especially getting the sky dark seems to be tricky. Maybe because there is a lot of luminance as well, so when i set blue to 0%, the sky gets a bit darker but not really. I will try around more...

Re: orange filter B/W effect 5 months, 1 week ago #215785

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The colour sensitivity curves of BW film are not linear, they reach into ultraviolett and differ from emulsion to emulsion (read: film type/manufacturer).

The Greyscale effect is simple to use. If you need more control, use two colour correction effects in a row. The first to tweak the colours, preferably with R, G, B curves, the second to just desaturate.

Edit: That doesn't work.
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Last Edit: 5 months, 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: orange filter B/W effect 5 months, 1 week ago #215786

  • hugly
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By the way the sky isn't just blue, it's compelmentary to red which is blue and green (cyan). That's why a red filter makes it so dark.. (together with blue, give green a chance)
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Last Edit: 5 months, 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: orange filter B/W effect 5 months, 1 week ago #215798

  • kalimerox
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that is what i meant with the inacurrate:" (as red filter absorbs blue light) "

I will try around more...

Re: orange filter B/W effect 5 months, 1 week ago #215802

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kalimerox wrote:
as red filter absorbs blue light"

Don't forget about the green.
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Re: orange filter B/W effect 5 months, 1 week ago #215803

  • jwrl
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I have just found an effect that I wrote in 2018 called "B & W film stock" which simulates a range of black and white film stocks with or without grain. It's in the zip file. It should give you a choice of panchromatic film stocks in low, medium and high speeds, Reversal B&W film, Orthochromatic in two versions and both ortho and panchro neg. The ortho stocks should get close to what you want.

[EDIT] Actually, I'm quite wrong. I misread your first post. Ortho stocks are red insensitive, not red sensitive. But there is an effect that in the user effects that will probably do what you want. In the technical effects section there is an effect called Channel diagnostics. You can show the contents of the red channel as a monochrome image with that effect.


[EDIT: I have removed the effect that I referred to here. It wasn't a fully developed effect and it didn't do what kalimerox wanted anyway. See the post below for something that might be better.]
Last Edit: 5 months, 1 week ago by jwrl.

Re: orange filter B/W effect 5 months, 1 week ago #215846

  • jwrl
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I have had a look at your problem, kalimerox. I have a prototype effect which gives you a choice of 85A Red, YA3 Orange, K2 Yellow, X0 Yellow-green and X1 Green all on a panchromatic stock. You should be aware though that because these are post production effects they will not always match what would have happened if you were using glass on the camera.

For example, an 85A Red filter drops exposure by around 3 stops. In my effect I have assumed that the cameraman has corrected for this so the result should look as you expect - but it may not depending on the original exposure and colour balance of the colour shot to which it's applied.

You may also have trouble with skies. Often with footage shot with phones and the like the sky can burn out to be quite desaturated. In such a case a YA3 Orange filter in post will not be able to give the same result as a glass filter would have, because the desaturated sky is providing a reduced colour gamut to the effect. The sky is closer to white than blue, and will still appear quite hot after the effect is applied.

Anyway, it's in the zip. Try it and let me know how you get on.
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Last Edit: 5 months, 1 week ago by jwrl.

Re: orange filter B/W effect 5 months, 1 week ago #215849

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I have to comment my own posts earlier, because I assumed that the Greyscale effect is designed for emulating colour filters on BW film stock, although I've never tested it.

I captured many of my own black and white outdoor stills on film with colour filters, hence I know quite well how this looks like with different lighting on various objects. Also, I used Photoshop a few times with more or less acceptable results on digital colour material. But now, after testing, I don't know what the Greyscale effect is designed for, but surely not for emulating glas filters on panchromatic film stock (in a simple manner).
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Last Edit: 5 months, 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: orange filter B/W effect 5 months, 1 week ago #215852

  • kalimerox
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@jwrl

thank you for this, this is working very well! and yes as you mentioned

You may also have trouble with skies. Often with footage shot with phones and the like the sky can burn out to be quite desaturated. In such a case a YA3 Orange filter in post will not be able to give the same result as a glass filter would have, because the desaturated sky is providing a reduced colour gamut to the effect. The sky is closer to white than blue, and will still appear quite hot after the effect is applied.



this applies especially in my case, where i recorded in slog2 and just afterwards want to darker the sky. So what i do now is apply a lut to bring up the colors and then apply your filter.

but anyways this effect gives a beautiful black and white effect, and also filtering the green is very effective on a scene in the woods, to enhance the contrast between people and forest.

I was often a fan of using the 85A filter "the wrong way" to imitate (on color stock) a typical city night lightning of sodium vapor lamps, as you can still find it in southern european cities (like Madrid in Spain or Arles in France)
though this is exaggerating very much, it can look cool.

I was wondering if there is a similar effect as the 85A BandWfilter but non black&white? So I could dial in a little bit of original color? Or maybe this would just be a "pure" color correction effect?

Re: orange filter B/W effect 5 months, 1 week ago #215858

  • jwrl
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Glad it's working for you. I'll do some screen grabs and put together some documentation so that I can add it to the library.

kalimerox wrote:
I was wondering if there is a similar effect as the 85A BandWfilter but non black&white? So I could dial in a little bit of original color?

You might like to check out the LW effects "Colour Temperature" and/or "Colour Tint". They could quickly get you the look that you want with colour footage. Once you set up something that works for you, you could save it as a template. Then you can just apply it like you would any other effect.

Alternatively, I don't know whether there are any LUTs out there that mimic filters, but it seems to me it would be the perfect use of one.
Last Edit: 5 months, 1 week ago by jwrl.

Re: orange filter B/W effect 5 months, 1 week ago #215862

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hugly wrote:
... I don't know what the Greyscale effect is designed for, but surely not for emulating glas filters on panchromatic film stock (in a simple manner).

The default color settings of the Lightworks effect try to compensate for the different intensity how the human eye perceives RGB colors.

:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
Mainly automatically translated
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Software: Lightworks 2020.1; || Windows 10, 64 Bit
Hardware: Intel i5-4440 (3,1 GHz); || shared RAM: 8 GB; || Intel HD Graphics 4600 (can use max. 2 GB of shared RAM)
Last Edit: 5 months, 1 week ago by schrauber.

Re: orange filter B/W effect 5 months, 1 week ago #215863

  • hugly
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Thank you for the information, schrauber.

Will have a look into your effect.
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Re: orange filter B/W effect 5 months, 1 week ago #215875

  • hugly
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FWIW

Some LUTs, just looks, nothing technical, but not bad:

lutify.me/examples/black-and-white-films/
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