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TOPIC: Pass-throughs

Pass-throughs 1 month ago #201694

  • hugly
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Pass-throughs are logically unavoidable in an effects chain on FX with layer based layout, if empty tracks exist.

Do we need them to be present in the Routing panel, what do you think?
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Re: Pass-throughs 1 month ago #201700

  • Great White
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Do we need them to be present in the Routing panel

Yes, without a doubt. Prior to visible pass-through nodes, we've had customers get into real messes when attempting to rewire nodes without realising that they were breaking downstream effects.
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Re: Pass-throughs 1 month ago #201701

  • schrauber
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Yes, I think pass-throughs is especially important when routing effects with multiple inputs are used, so that there are parallel paths in the routing that partly skip tracks. So it seems to me more predictable (within certain limits) which track remains connected to which effect when I move segments into that area.

It would be helpful if in the future we could have the possibility to manually reconnect pass-throughs. (without just adding temporary segments for connection purposes) I can also create a bypass around the pass-throughs, but if I insert a segment into this area at a later time, this segment will not be used, and I have to change the routing manually again.
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Last Edit: 1 month ago by schrauber. Reason: Translation corrected

Re: Pass-throughs 1 month ago #201718

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Great White wrote:
Prior to visible pass-through nodes, we've had customers get into real messes when attempting to rewire nodes without realising that they were breaking downstream effects.

Can you show an example where the presence of pass-through nodes, or the information provided by those, helps avoiding wrong rewiring which breaks downstream effects.
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Last Edit: 1 month ago by hugly.

Re: Pass-throughs 1 month ago #201720

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As soon as you have effects of differing lengths on FX tracks, there absence of pass-through nodes can cause problems :

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Without pass-through nodes, the routing at each of the mark points looks decidedly different (but is in fact the same). Rewiring nodes at the rightmost mark is much more likely to have unexpected consequences on the morphology at the first mark if you can't see all the tracks that are involved.
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Re: Pass-throughs 1 month ago #201736

  • hugly
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Thank you.

One of the problems I do have with pass-though nodes in the routing panel is that they don't behave like other nodes when trying to rewire.

One example of a simple broken routing with five FX tracks. The only available way to rewire is connecting V1 to Titles:

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In this case, none of the connections of any of the pass-through nodes can be modified. It's a chain without a function which provides just the information that there are pass-throughs. Topologically, it can be replaced by a single symbol in the panel (e.g. a red rectangle on the output of V1 which indicates there is a connection to a pass-through internally, with function of the output untouched).

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Re: Pass-throughs 1 month ago #201772

  • hugly
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One other thing which makes working with pass-trough nodes difficult for me: After connecting V1 to FX1 in the example above and switching away from the Routing panel and back, or applying Tidy, this is shown:

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The distance of the connections of subsequent pass-trough nodes is automatically enlarged with each node. This creates a lot of empty space, small nodes, and long distances without any obvious benefit. The chain of pass-through nodes has still no other function than to inform about its existence - the functional elements in this graph are the nodes V1 and FX1. A tidier presentation of the chain of pass-trough nodes would help keeping the overview much easier. Also in this case, a single symbol on the node of V1 would be sufficient.
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Last Edit: 1 month ago by hugly.

Re: Pass-throughs 1 month ago #201773

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-- With the red rectangle, introduced above as one example for a symbol standing for a connected chain of pass-through nodes, the functional group shown in my last post above would look like this:

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Re: Pass-throughs 1 month ago #201780

  • schrauber
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I would prefer if I could just reconnect the broken link with FX2 Pass-through. (or alternatively another pass-through). The Bypass around the inactive Pass-throughs has the same function at this time, but only as long as nothing is added there.
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Last Edit: 1 month ago by schrauber.

Re: Pass-throughs 1 month ago #201786

  • hugly
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That isn't feature request. I'm just showing how useless some recent graphs are (can be).
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Last Edit: 1 month ago by hugly.

Re: Pass-throughs 1 month ago #201808

  • hugly
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schrauber wrote:
I would prefer if I could just reconnect the broken link with FX2 Pass-through.
This would fix the major flaw shown in my first example. Currently, disconnecting an effect from a chain of pass-through nodes is a not reversible operation. In general, I can't imagine any reason why a not reversible operation should exist in the routing panel?

or alternatively another pass-through
What would you use that for?
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Last Edit: 1 month ago by hugly.

Re: Pass-throughs 1 month ago #201809

  • schrauber
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hugly wrote:
schrauber wrote:
...or alternatively another pass-through
What would you use that for?

In practice, this is probably without noteworthy relevance, although in theory I could influence the behavior of e.g. trimming processes, etc..

I only mentioned it because I think that routing with Pass-through should behave like normal effects. So it would be an option that would automatically result from the desired uniform behavior.

However, the difference is that Pass-through cannot be deleted. With many pass-throughs connected in series, perhaps a grouping into only one element, and regrouping if needed? There is already a feature request for grouping effects in general.
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Last Edit: 1 month ago by schrauber.

Re: Pass-throughs 1 month ago #201811

  • hugly
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I asked because I don't know all thinkable connections with pass-through nodes involved.

My current understanding is that a pass-through node can't be disconnected from the video track it belongs to and, if a chain of pass-through nodes (more than one) exists, the interconnections can't be disconnected. If that's always true, a chain of pass-trough nodes could be collapsed in the panel to a single symbol, e.g a single pass-through node or a red rectangle. In both cases, the output of the chain must be connectable, which it isn't after disconnecting, currently.
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Re: Pass-throughs 1 month ago #201812

  • hugly
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I don't know, but it appears as if pass-through nodes exist only on V1?


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Last Edit: 1 month ago by hugly.

Re: Pass-throughs 4 weeks, 1 day ago #201890

  • hugly
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This might also be worth a look? Moving an effect on FX with the mouse from a higher position on FX to the bottom most FX track, with video track disabled, breaks the connection.

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