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TOPIC: Chroma Key effect not behaving as expected (interaction with other layers)

Re: Chroma Key effect not behaving as expected (interaction with other layers) 1 month, 1 week ago #197314

  • RWAV
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- Use unfolded VFX - discrete VFX tracks
- if the pass-through is a V track used elsewhere - it is OK to leave it but if it's just poor housekeeping do take it out.
- same for the seemingly unused DVE

- mark/park a suitable length of the effect set-up - say 5 seconds.
- make a copy of that mark/park edit.

- open that copy - 'Remove' the story-specific media from, in your screen grab V1 and V5 tracks - leave them empty do not delete the tracks.

Park/Mark that small edit - it can be reduced to a tile if necessary - this is your FVX 'Pack'.

In the next story edit
- Put focus on the 'Pack 'Insert' the 'Pack' into the working edit
- 'Replace' the empty V tracks with appropriate material.

With simple trimming tools extend the length as required - all VFX should be in place and correct.

Folded VFX are not a favoured thing here - but all the above is probably also possible using folded VFX if before mark/park making the 'pack' the existing V1 and V5 media is 'Replaced' with LW Black. That Black remains in the 'Pack'. Have not double checked but the folded VFX should remain in place and will persist when the Black is 'Replaced' by new media.

With a bit of extra work one can also incorporate things like stock Title LowerThirds with in/out transitions into the 'pack' - and more ----

There was a recent discussion more or less about this topic here -

www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=12&id=196247&Itemid=81#196354
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Re: Chroma Key effect not behaving as expected (interaction with other layers) 1 month ago #197332

  • hugly
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Since unfolding effects can be a bit tricky, sometimes, I've created and attached a template which should meet your needs. The track order is different from yours and I've added a DVE to each track to allow scaling independently. You have to adjust the DVEs and CC to your needs and save it with your adjustments afterwards as your own template for reuse.

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To install, download and unzip it, with Lightworks shut down, move 'F7063RF4.fxt' to
C:\Users\Public\Documents\Lightworks\Effect Templates
You'll find the template under 'Category.User' 'Greescreen 2 Masks. It needs 4 video tracks to be present, arranged as shown in the screenshot like this:
V1 Greenscreen (the talent)
V2 Background
V3 Mask below greenscreen (your room)
V4 Mask over greenscreen (your desk)

Drag and drop the template onto V1 or apply to a marked section, adjust as needed, and save as your own template when finished. When using the same name and category the existing will be overwritten.

Hope there are no name collisions when moving to the templates folder.
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Last Edit: 1 month ago by hugly.

Re: Chroma Key effect not behaving as expected (interaction with other layers) 1 month ago #197354

  • jwrl
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To any non-Windows users reading this: that template may not work on your systems and should be tested first before relying on it.

In any case, you're better off building your own. You'll learn more, and you'll have something that you can tailor to exactly meet your needs. Saving a template in Lightworks is childishly simple.
Last Edit: 1 month ago by jwrl.

Re: Chroma Key effect not behaving as expected (interaction with other layers) 1 month ago #197618

  • erikt
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I can't say THANK YOU loudly enough to everyone who has offered such complete and detailed advice. It's super helpful and much appreciated.

But to be honest, I'm struggling to actually use it, something I have so far failed to achieve. The problem is that I'm totally completely new to Lightworks, so even *concepts* like "folded" and "unfolded" effects are completely foreign to me.

At risk of being a pest, would it be possible for one of you to just list what Lightworks concepts I need to understand as prerequisite, in order for all of this discussion to make sense? Seems like I need to learn about Lightworks TEMPLATES, and FOLDED/UNFOLDED EFFECTS. What other concepts should I go hit the documentation and tutorials for before coming back to this thread to make sense of what I'm sure is excellent advice, even if a bit over my head at the moment?

Thanks in advance,
Erik

Re: Chroma Key effect not behaving as expected (interaction with other layers) 1 month ago #197629

  • hugly
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I just checked the user guide and there's nothing about folded and unfolded effects, although it's a basic concept and mandatory to understand as soon as more complex effect setups are used.

On page 191 of the V14.5 User Guide you'll find information about saving effects templates.

Basically and if 'Allow folded effects' is enabled, drag and drop an effect from the effects panel onto a clip in the timeline or apply the effect to 'Current clip' to create a folded effect. It appears as small coloured rectangle on the video segment, one per effect. A folded effect applies to the entire segment (the region between two cuts) and is trimmed together with the video segment. An unfolded effect appears on FX, it applies to a marked section, which can match a video segment but needs not. It can be trimmed independently. To unfold folded effects, from context menu use 'Effects.Unfold'. To fold unfolded effects, all must match position and duration of the video segment underneath, then you can use the context menu 'Effects.Fold' to fold.

Although referring to an outdated version these tutorials might be of some use:




Hope that helps to bring you to the next level.
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Last Edit: 1 month ago by hugly.

Re: Chroma Key effect not behaving as expected (interaction with other layers) 3 weeks ago #198269

  • erikt
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Believe it or not, despite how easy @hugly has tried to make it for me, I'm still struggling to figure out the whole system of effects, templates, how and when they are applied, etc.

Let's come at this from another angle: It seems that what I really need is to hire a lightworks expert to set up an environment for me that makes it easy to just drop in a greenscreen clip and then apply various different virtual set camera angles to specific ranges of video. (A virtual camera angle is really just a change of the background and foreground images above and below the greenscreen layer). This project would probably consume a grand total of about two hours time by a LWKS expert like @hugly, but would probably save me countless hours of learning curve.

@hugly, if you or anyone you would recommend are interested in helping me more with this (for pay), please e-mail me (info at macrovoices dotcom) to discuss. If you're not in that business, perhaps someone here can suggest where I might find someone with the right skills to help me set this up.

I'm not a video editor and don't really want to learn "all about it". I just need help setting up an environment where I can drop in new greenscreen clips and apply about a half-dozen different virtual camera angles, including a couple which have "virtual monitors" meaning we need to hook them up to another video track that appears on the virtual monitor. I can already tell it will make more sense to hire someone to help me thru this than to try and figure it out myself.

Moderators: I read the rules first and didn't see any rule against soliciting for a paid consultant to help me out. If asking for this here is not appropriate, please feel free to delete (and hopefully tell me where I should be looking instead).

Thanks in advance!!!
Erik

Re: Chroma Key effect not behaving as expected (interaction with other layers) 3 weeks ago #198282

  • RWAV
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The direct path is to use a section of edit saved as a 'template' - complete with all standard V ans A tracks in place - one can have a number of these preconfigured to exact requirements - just drop-in where required, populate tracks with relevant media and trim to required length. Job done. An an editor the skills to set-up the composite shot just once would not require the services of any 'expert' and do be aware that many contributors here do not necessarily understand the demands of actual production work.

Saving as a User VFX 'package' is the scenic route - with stops along the way to repair routing where it hasn't quite worked as expected, add tracks as required and other fix-ups.
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Re: Chroma Key effect not behaving as expected (interaction with other layers) 2 weeks, 6 days ago #198359

  • erikt
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Thanks for that clarification, @RWAV.

So it sounds like what I need is a set of templates, one for each of the different virtual camera angles. Most of them are as simple as what was discussed earlier in this thread, but a couple of them have virtual monitors would would require sourcing the picture that goes in the virtual monitor from another video layer.

How long should it take for a proficient LWKS user to set up all those templates for me so that I could use them to translate my greenscreen source video to decent looking output, relying only on my sub-novice editing skills? I'm guessing it would only take an hour or two to set up all the templates and make them easy to use even by a novice. If that's true, I'm much more inclined to hire someone for a couple of hours rather than spending a couple of weeks trying to figure it out myself.

How long should this take a proficient LWKS user? And if nobody in this thread is interested in the work, is there a good place to look for LWKS freelancers, either on this site or elsewhere?

Thanks in advance,
Erik

Re: Chroma Key effect not behaving as expected (interaction with other layers) 2 weeks, 6 days ago #198360

  • hugly
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Your estimation of the time needed without providing details about the job is the reason why I didn't contact you.

I don't know if you'll find somebody, but I'd suggest, for further attempts, describing the job roughly in order to find people interested, then to provide requested material/information after the first contact and let the person make an offer. Finally, you can compare the offers and make your choice.
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Last Edit: 2 weeks, 6 days ago by hugly.

Re: Chroma Key effect not behaving as expected (interaction with other layers) 2 weeks, 6 days ago #198362

  • erikt
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>Your estimation of the time needed without providing
>details about the job is the reason why I didn't contact you.

I think you misunderstood my intent. I wasn't trying to imply "it should only cost this much". My only reason for saying it sounded like it would only take you a couple hours was to illustrate my point that it would take me much longer. Nothing in my prior posts was intended to set a price ceiling or state an opinion on how much work should be required, so please don't interpret it to have that meaning.

Let's try again. My need is to have an environment that I can use as a novice in order to turn my greenscreen source into finished .mp4 video. The virtual set has several different camera angles (7 total I think), for which I could provide the background layer still and the foreground still (desk that goes in front of the talent layer). Additionally, for some (I think just two) of the camera angles, they have "virtual monitors" where there is a big computer monitor behind the talent's shoulder, and the content displayed on that monitor will need to be sourced from someplace else, presumably a separate video track.

What I need is for someone to set up the templates needed so that I can just edit the re-takes and other mistakes out of the greenscreen source, then go thru it and apply different virtual studio camera angles by doing something simple, such as just selecting a range of video and clicking some button to apply one of the virtual camera angle templates to the selected video.

It would probably make sense to include a half-hour oritentation session where you look over my shoulder using TeamViewer and show me how to correctly use the templates you created, and also how to update them if the background or foreground stills change for some reason.

That's the description of the job, and I welcome anyone here to contact me with a proposal if you can help. info at macrovoices dotcom is the best place to reach me.

Thanks,
Erik

Re: Chroma Key effect not behaving as expected (interaction with other layers) 2 weeks, 6 days ago #198366

  • RWAV
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erikt - Absolutely - a separate 'template for each angle.

In the earlier examples you posted it was nearly there - was derailed a little by the need to move to unfolded VFX.

To be honest doubt that external intervention is needed but if it was to be done by a LW/production experienced operator as a costed job allowing an hour for each template would be very generous - then add some time for interaction/approvals.
Here the standard currency for helping out colleagues is a bottle or three of good wine.

It would be sensible to start with the angle with the largest V track requirement - probably the two on-set video screen version - then every subsequent version/angle would place the 'standard' items (presenter/video-content) on the same V tracks as the most complicated version.

The issues involved in sharing the virtual set material - assuming it is copyrighted/purchased - make it difficult to come up with solutions publicly - otherwise no doubt it would all be solved on-line here.
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Re: Chroma Key effect not behaving as expected (interaction with other layers) 2 weeks, 6 days ago #198368

  • erikt
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A few quick clarifications to my prior description of the project. The following verified details were either vague or mis-stated in my earlier post. I've since verified the details from the virtual set specifications:


  • There are a total of 7 angles.
  • Three close-up angles have a .PNG background layer only. The remaining 4 consist of two still .PNG's. One is the background and the other is the foreground in front of the talent, i.e. the news desk.
  • One angle has two virtual monitors. Four more angles have one virtual monitor. The remaining two angles have no virtual monitor
  • Where the talent is placed in the frame depends on the camera angle. For example there is one angle where the talent needs to be inserted on the left side of the frame, and another angle where the talent needs to be on the right side of the frame, opposite side from the virtual monitor. It would be nice if switching from one template to the other automatically positioned the talent in the right place without need of manual intervention. Similarly, the various zoom levels (wide, mid, close-up) require that the talent be sized differently based on camera angle. The template should automatically resize the talent layer (i.e. Z axis) when the template is applied to establish the camera angle.
  • It would be nice if the virtual monitor layer were preserved between angles. In other words, switch from wide to medium to close-up by applying camera angle templates and the image on the virtual monitor stays constant because all the templates are drawing it from the same source layer.
  • I can supply all the .PNG files for the layers, but I also need to learn how to replace them at a later date, e.g. if I change the skyline backdrop or virtual lighting settings and need to update the background .PNG used by the the template.
Last Edit: 2 weeks, 6 days ago by erikt.

Re: Chroma Key effect not behaving as expected (interaction with other layers) 2 weeks, 1 day ago #198650

  • erikt
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Since nobody expressed interest in helping set this up for hire, I'm bacck to DIY mode, and as @RWAV suggested, it's not as hard as I feared. @hugly's template made a huge difference. I still haven't figured out all the nuances of effect folding, but just copying and re-saving hugly's template with different settings is working wonders. I even managed to plug in another 3D DVE and a V5 track to support the one camera view that has two virtual monitors, separately sourced. THANK YOU ALL FOR THE SUPER HELPFUL ADVICE!

So now I'm running into three more obstacles, which are probably easy to overcome if I knew what to try.

1. Applying different templates to different timeline selections on the same V1 track:

I start by dropping my greenscreen source in V1 and the right background and foreground art in the other tracks, and then applying hugly's template which I've re-saved with all the right DVE settings for the 1st (wide) camera angle. Works beautifully. Next I select a section of that track I need to see in a different (medium shot) camera angle. Then a drag another template I created from hugly's example, but it has DVE settings for a different zoom so the talent is resized and repositioned.

I'm trying to drag this new template (Angle2) onto the SELECTED REGION of the same V1 track that had the Angle1 template applied. Doing this seems to create a new FX1 layer that screws up everything on the screen. I'm guessing I need to first cut the V1 clip so that I have two separate clips on the timeline, to which I can apply different camera angle templates. But I can't figure out how to do that either.

Can anyone advise what I should be trying to do to tell LWKS I want one template to apply to one part of the clip, and a different template that contains different DVE settings to a different part of the clip? I found a way to apply the template so that the entire clip is adjusted to the settings in the template, but that screws up the earlier footage that was intended in a different camera angle. And the other things I tried just resulted in the appearance of an FX1 track that seems to break everything.

2. Automatic change of V3/V4 contents on template application? When I eventually figure out how to apply a given camera angle template to just a specific selected region of the timeline, the obvious purpose of doing so is to set everything up for that camera angle. Ideally that would include putting the needed still images in V3 and V4 automatically. So far all I can figure is to use the template to set up the DVE settings, then manually insert the foreground and background masks for that camera angle in V3 and V4. Is there a macro mechanism or something that could apply the template and replace the contents of the mask tracks all in one step?

3. Is there a way to apply a 'perspective' or 'keystone' type of effect in a DVE? See attached screen grab, and notice how the skyline photo on the left virtual monitor doesn't fit the monitor correctly because the monitor is on an angled wall, so the image needs to be turned 'into perspective' so the left edge is taller than the right edge. Is there a 4D DVE or something that allows the rectangular image to be manipulated as a trapeziod?

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THANKS AGAIN for all the help, everyone. Particularly @hugly for the extremely helpful template.

Erik

Re: Chroma Key effect not behaving as expected (interaction with other layers) 2 weeks, 1 day ago #198653

  • jwrl
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1. You definitely need to cut the video at the point at which you want to change the effect. Press the "c" key at the point at which you want to change the effect, remove any existing effect(s) from that point on, then apply your new effect(s).

2. You will still need to set up V3 and V4 yourself. Lightworks can't store the shots you want in a template. If you want to do something like that, save a section of the timeline containing that effect combination as separate sequence. When you need to use it, edit that sequence into your timeline and replace just the video components that you want to alter. Trim it to suit your needs and you're done.

3. The 3D DVE will do exactly what you need. A combination X, Y and Z rotations will get you there. Use X and Y to place the end result where you want it, and the Z position to scale it.

Re: Chroma Key effect not behaving as expected (interaction with other layers) 2 weeks, 1 day ago #198656

  • schrauber
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erikt wrote:
... So now I'm running into three more obstacles, which are probably easy to overcome if I knew what to try ....

To 1 and 2 on this thread only shortly:
In your case, the FX track is probably the best way to make it easy for you to swap video tracks. Create the templates accordingly. Effects that only apply to one video source (like color correction) can probably stay folded?
There are also several ways to add effects / templates.

Maybe the keyboard shortcut "Swap track" (Alt+s or Alt+ß) is helpful?
See User Manual page 239 and following.
You disable all tracks except two whose contents you want to swap.
After pressing the key combination, Lightworks swaps the content and automatically cuts at the playback position. Either everything to the right of the playback position, or in Mark & Park only the marked section. If these effects are in the deactivated FX track, then the routing should remain unchanged for the track which now has a different content.
There are also many other useful keyboard commands.

I think separate threads make sense for more detail.

I have created a new thread to your question point 3: www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=7&id=198655&Itemid=81#198655
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