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TOPIC: Figured out multi-cam bins ...

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 6 months, 4 weeks ago #196616

  • hugly
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On your way to the next level, bypassing the clapperboard, have a look at UltraSync One, a product in direct competition to Tentacle Sync and quite interesting.

www.timecodesystems.com/products-home/ultrasync-one-2/
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Last Edit: 6 months, 4 weeks ago by hugly.

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 6 months, 4 weeks ago #196617

  • lghtwrks
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addendum - old (PoC) demo ~2014, sync lwks to reaper via LTC )
www.dma.ufg.ac.at/assets/24829/intern/Lightworks_LTC_timecode_sync_simon.mp4
s.

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 6 months, 3 weeks ago #196654

  • hugly
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The LTC track gives an idea how it was. What version does the demo show?

Just to say, since we are dealing with files and not tapes, T/C jumps within a file don't exist (unless the LTC recording is faulty and thus useless), wow and flutter are history, and drifting devices can't be detected with LTC, anyway. For re-inventing LTC support, the task would be, extracting the start T/C label from the LTC track, maybe inventing some kind of adjustable offset to compensate for not correctly tagged audio stream delays, and that's it. The rest goes as it goes with all other material, by calculating the timecode based on start T/C, and frame rate or time stamps of the video track.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 6 months, 3 weeks ago by hugly.

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 6 months, 3 weeks ago #196656

  • smyrf
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hugly wrote:
On your way to the next level, bypassing the clapperboard, have a look at UltraSync One, a product in direct competition to Tentacle Sync and quite interesting.

www.timecodesystems.com/products-home/ultrasync-one-2/


I haven't discounted the clapperboard at all, if anything just yesterday I installed "DigiSlate" on my phone Just researching different approaches and trying to understand each method better, and discovering the various possible workflows in general. And picking up several tips/ideas along the way ...

Speaking of which, I realised that with the kemroll workflow RWAV explained, it would still be necessary to enter T/C by hand, as opposed to syncing visually when using a clapper. I guess I'll figure out which is more efficient / less error-prone once I'm dealing with larger amounts of media. Up until now I've been syncing "visually", sometimes using the ol' primitive "hand clap".

All recommendations/suggestions/explanations so far have been helpful and appreciated

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 6 months, 3 weeks ago #196657

  • smyrf
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...and while on the topic of LTC and its earlier implementations, I came across this curious retro bit of kit while watching something quite unrelated:

www.aoassocies.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/aaton_originc_brochure_en.pdf

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 6 months, 3 weeks ago #196662

  • hugly
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Personally I'm a friend of step by step approaches.

Regarding your first promo video, there's only one segment with obvious sync issues, although you didn't even use a clapperboard. How far away is that from perfect sync? Not much.

TC will reduce time for syncing sound in post, but it won't improve the value of your creative work.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 6 months, 3 weeks ago by hugly.

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 6 months, 3 weeks ago #196663

  • hugly
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That's my favorite on how to slate:

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Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 6 months, 3 weeks ago #196672

  • hugly
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Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Timecode* (*But Were Afraid to Ask):

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Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 6 months, 3 weeks ago #196681

  • RWAV
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smyrf wrote:
I haven't discounted the clapperboard at all, if anything just yesterday I installed "DigiSlate" on my phone


The clapper remains the mainstay of double system shooting - a modern timecode slate has all the bells and whistles and if all else fails - as it sometimes can - it is always a basic manual picture/sound clap alignment guide.

In shooting a live performance it can be a bit difficult to rely on a clapper - so
one needs a reliable T/C workflow the most cost effective is as per my previous posts.

Objects like the mid-range timecodesystems kit work by continuous jam-syncing all acquisition devices with Timecode and/or Sync signals - so the first questions would be - are the cameras/recorders proposed capable of slaving to external sync and can the production afford one sync box per camera/recorder.

www.timecodesystems.com/shop/

In designing a workflow - best not to underestimate the challenges of transmitting timecode or of cobbling together an improvised system based on audio track readable timecode.
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Last Edit: 6 months, 3 weeks ago by RWAV.

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 6 months, 3 weeks ago #196683

  • jwrl
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I was once on a series where the line producer had ruled that since we were using timecoded film and sound no clappers were to be used, because it would save so much from the budget not to have all the footage "wasted" shooting clappers. Fortunately the crew (myself included) mutinied. Not a frame was shot without a slate being used. I don't think that there was an episode where we didn't have to rely on the clapper to get us out of trouble somewhere.

In brief: timecode is helpful for multicam shoots, but a clapper can settle all arguments!
Last Edit: 6 months, 3 weeks ago by jwrl.

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 6 months, 3 weeks ago #196685

  • hugly
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Has anybody a clip with LTC recorded on an audio track to share?

Even a few second of LTC in an audio file would be sufficient.
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Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 6 months, 3 weeks ago #196686

  • briandrys
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If without a clapper board a clap can be used. I was bemused to see Laura Kuenssberg, the BBC News political editor, doing one before interviewing Theresa May in a documentary about Brexit.

Sorry about using the B word.

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 6 months, 3 weeks ago #196687

  • hugly
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Claps can be used, two handed and vertical in most case, but I can imagine that the one handed horizontal will give usable results as well, performed with some force of course, to create a good spike.
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Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 6 months, 3 weeks ago #196692

  • hugly
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Since I find the idea to extract start T/C from an audio-LTC signal sexy, I continued testing and found that I can create an LTC track with Reaper and render it to mono wav. I merged the result with one of my test videos, fed BMR 16 with it and - very straight forward - with one click, the audio-LTC track is auto-detected and we're ready to go with AUX T/C, 1 frame offset. I found no way to restore primary T/C after updating from audio-LTC, is there any?

I've attached the file. Timecode from container metadata is 10:26:23:00, from LTC 02:22:22:22, to see a difference when switching.

Anyone to test with MC and share the results?
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Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 6 months, 3 weeks ago #197050

  • smyrf
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hugly wrote:
Personally I'm a friend of step by step approaches.

Regarding your first promo video, there's only one segment with obvious sync issues, although you didn't even use a clapperboard. How far away is that from perfect sync? Not much.

Yes I might have finally managed to get it close enough to perfect sync, but I know how frustrating it was getting to that point And this is for a few-minute-long video...
On the other hand, I'm just finishing a documentary I worked on with a friend (currently adding English subtitles), and I didn't have anywhere near the problems with sync, despite the 40min running time. But they were much longer takes after all, talking head shots (and many outdoor shots, most of which didn't require sync). So I guess it really depends on the material. (Also admittedly the frustration was mostly due to playback performance.)

TC will reduce time for syncing sound in post, but it won't improve the value of your creative work.

True, but a lesson I've learnt from other creative fields is to simplify the technical aspects as much as possible (either by reducing complexity but also by getting familiar with the technicalities till it becomes second nature), to get it out of the way and allow you to focus on the creative aspects as much as possible. At least until I can hire a DIT / editorial assistant!

Anyway thanks to all for your input and interesting discussion (mention of the "B" word notwithstanding ) I've only really come to the forum for specific issues with the software, but I should visit more often...
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