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TOPIC: Figured out multi-cam bins ...

Figured out multi-cam bins ... 4 months, 2 weeks ago #195772

  • smyrf
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This is a quick project I finished recently, a promo vid for a band's upcoming concert.

It was the first time I made use of multi-cam bins - I actually learned how to use them for this very project. I had a few takes (wide shot on tripod, medium handheld shots) for each song (two songs used here), and multitrack audio was recorded separately.

www.dropbox.com/s/y64zj0rbb5k8yl1/Renaissance%20promo.mp4?dl=0

A lot of buzzed focus unfortunately, mostly on zoomed shots, due to using a non-parfocal zoom lens.

Either way, I love working on projects where I can learn something new (which, at the moment, is pretty much the case for everything I work on )

Next challenge is trying to figure out the offline editing workflow, in particular figuring out how to export interchange formats into Resolve!

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 4 months, 2 weeks ago #195814

  • hugly
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Hello smyrf,

It appears to me that sound and lipsync are off by a few frames. Sound seems to be too early (picture follows sound).

Is this caused by the playback on Dropbox or do you see it in a local media player as well?
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 4 months, 2 weeks ago by hugly.

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 4 months, 1 week ago #195843

  • smyrf
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Hi hugly,

I did hear the same thing from others, but I think it's mostly a playback issue when streaming and/or with certain players. I think with Dropbox in particular it's better to download the file instead of streaming, since it also seems to stream at a very low resolution.

I did have problems syncing the audio in LW initially, because I was using a slow external USB3 HDD, and playback in LW was very choppy at times, and audio that was correctly synced would still play back with a delay within LW, which could make things quite confusing. But I've since moved all media to a faster internal drive and also now capture in Prores, both of which helped.

Actually I might have to start a new thread on finding an ideal workflow becuase I'm still trying to figure out a few things...



hugly wrote:
Hello smyrf,

It appears to me that sound and lipsync are off by a few frames. Sound seems to be too early (picture follows sound).

Is this caused by the playback on Dropbox or do you see it in a local media player as well?

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 4 months, 1 week ago #195844

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Hi smyrf,

After downloading, I recognized that most sync issues I encountered were caused by playback in my browser directly from Dropbox. Played on a local player, almost everything syncs fine. Only from 00:00:56.18 to 00:00:59.13 sound of the drum appears to be 2-3 frames ahead of picture, and I don't know if the jump cut at the end of that segment is intended or unavoidable.

I find the video attractive and well edited, with subtle effects and sense for timing.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 4 months, 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 4 months, 1 week ago #195877

  • smyrf
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Yeah you're right, I was a bit rushed to finish it and was having too many problems with sync and might have overlooked a few issues such as that, and the jump cut, not sure what happened there!

Thanks for the comments. I'm currently working on another similar one for the same group so we'll see how that goes

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 4 months, 1 week ago #195882

  • hugly
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I hope you'll share the result.

Just in case you don't use it, recording a clapperboard with each take will make things easier to sync in post.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 4 months, 1 week ago #195922

  • smyrf
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hugly wrote:
I hope you'll share the result.


Sure, why not!

hugly wrote:
Just in case you don't use it, recording a clapperboard with each take will make things easier to sync in post.


That's exactly what I was telling one of the people involved, yesterday I don't usually shoot with more than one camera but now that I upgraded to something more usable, I still have the old mirrorless camera for some secondary shots/angles.

Ideally I was thinking of picking up a tentacle sync (or two) at some point...

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 4 months, 1 week ago #195924

  • smyrf
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Actually the main problem with sync on this project was because of using h.264 media on a slow drive, so sometimes even if the media was synced it would appear out of sync during playback. And using multicam bins only made it worse (slower).

I was using a less than ideal approach of doing colour correction in Resolve on the original footage before editing, but I'm on a PC so I can't export in Prores, and I don't have a DNxHD license, so I was limited to some form of h.264.

My camera now (BMCC 2.5k) shoots in various flavours of Prores so ideally in future I would edit with camera original files, then export to AAF (and OMF for audio mix), and finish in Resolve. But am I correct in my understanding that using any sort of interchange format requires embedded timecode? I've read about applications like Qtchange which can add timecode manually, but that's something I still have to research.

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 4 months, 1 week ago #195929

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There's nothing wrong with a clapperboard the people shooting blockbusters on film still use it toady and to identify the shot/take it has made it into digital productions as well.

As far as I know, Tentacle Sync writes a LTC signal to an audio track. Converting LTC to SMPTE timecode isn't supported by Lightworks, currently. I vaguely remember that there's been a feature request.

When using a multicam bin, even with ProRes media, it could be beneficial to use internal low res proxies for best possible performance.

You don't need source clips with embedded timecode track to write and read valid interchange formats. What you need are unique file identifyers (e.g. filename, reel-ID). If there's no embedded timecode, the count starts at zero, a valid timecode, the rest is calculated anyway. Seeking isn't done by reading timecode tracks, but by reading frames (on audio: samples).

However, embedded sychronized (!) timcode helps when cameras (and or sound recording devices) are to be synchronized, e.g. in a multicam bin, but as mentioned, the clapperboard will do:

It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 4 months, 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 4 months, 1 week ago #195930

  • briandrys
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I was using a less than ideal approach of doing colour correction in Resolve on the original footage before editing, but I'm on a PC so I can't export in Prores, and I don't have a DNxHD license, so I was limited to some form of h.264.


With Lightworks you also have the option of Cineform, which comes with the Pro version.

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 4 months, 1 week ago #195943

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hugly wrote:
As far as I know, Tentacle Sync writes a LTC signal to an audio track. Converting LTC to SMPTE timecode isn't supported by Lightworks, currently. I vaguely remember that there's been a feature request.


From what I've read, they include a utility to sync picture and audio prior to ingest, and I think Resolve also has an option to do it, though I'm not sure if that would imply having to transcode in that case.

Currently I use a more "music-oriented" multitrack recorder (I have more of an audio background), but was looking for something like a Zoom F4 which does proper TC, to which I could jam the tentacle and then connect it to the camera and record an LTC track. Though I guess my reasoning was due to my assumption that TC was a requirement in several situations in post (as mentioned above).

hugly wrote:
When using a multicam bin, even with ProRes media, it could be beneficial to use internal low res proxies for best possible performance.


I'll that keep that in mind, thanks. When you say internal proxies, do you mean proxy files generated by LW? Or simply the option in LW to display video in lower resolution?

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 4 months, 1 week ago #195944

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I'll have to check if that's an option in Resolve (I assume it would be), but for some reason I always thought Cineform was a raw acquisition format...

briandrys wrote:
With Lightworks you also have the option of Cineform, which comes with the Pro version.
Last Edit: 4 months, 1 week ago by smyrf.

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 4 months, 1 week ago #195945

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I suspect that both, the Tentacle software and Resolve, will need transcoding (re-encoding) in order to create synced files directly editiable with Lightworks, but as long as you stay with intermediate formats, that shouldn't have any impact to visible/audible quality. However, do you know how both solutions handle syncing video to multitrack recordings?

I meant proxies created with Lightworks. However, the preview settings from 'Video.Output.Format' may have some impact when working with viewers in Flexible layout, but I don't know. I prefer using the multicam bin feature with tiles anyway.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 4 months, 1 week ago #195946

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smyrf wrote:
I'll have to check if that's an option in Resolve (I assume it would be), but for some reason I always thought Cineform was a raw acquisition format.

Cineform is available under 'Render Settings-Custom' in 'Quicktime' (MOV) and 'AVI' format.

Cineform has been designed to be both, an acquisition format and an intermediate format, but in fact it's used as intermediate format, at least I don't know any camera system which provides Cineform as record format.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 4 months, 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: Figured out multi-cam bins ... 4 months, 1 week ago #195947

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smyrf wrote:
I'll have to check if that's an option in Resolve (I assume it would be), but for some reason I always thought Cineform was a raw acquisition format...


There is a RAW version, but it was only used on the Silicon Imaging SI-2k camera, which was used to shoot "Slumdog Millionaire".
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