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TOPIC: Allign audio for sync in sub frame manner?

Re: Allign audio for sync in sub frame manner? 2 weeks, 3 days ago #212425

  • Danas_Anis
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With all due respect it appears there are people who likes to make things in more complicated ways than needed. Why waste time and do it in DAW when all you have to do is a slight push?
It is not sound design for which you need a DAW, it is this: you got video with sound, you got separately recorded sound, your task is to put these things together into one nicely edited video clip. I don;t know how people work else where, but where I work, we do it like this: we have footage, we have audio, we sync it all in an NLE of choice and then cut it to the desires of the client.

I am not the only one hitting this issue, googled this and it looks like through years there are people facing the same issue in LW. I agree that if you work on a huge budget productions like guys in Hollywood, people may not face these things, but us, mortal people, have to deal with various stuff.

Anyway, I think this problem should not exist. Things that can be done in one app is best done in that one app., rather than having workflow cluttered with bunch of things like having to use DAW for a simple push of a couple of audio clips.
In this situation life is simple, if this NLE can't do it, I go to the one that can. Problem solved...

To make some clarification about why I need to be able to move clips on subframe level: Audio from two sources, it is about same thing, but one has something needed the other one doesn't, that is why I need to combine these two sources, the combined parts has this echoing just because of the tiny misalignment. Being able to push clips at subframe level completely erases this issue.
Kind regards,
Danas
www.danas-imaging.com

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Re: Allign audio for sync in sub frame manner? 2 weeks, 3 days ago #212428

  • David Rasberry
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If you are syncing double system location sound to picture you do not need subframe accuracy.
A 24fps frame is 42ms long
A 30fps frame is 33.3 ms long
A 60fps frame only 16.6 ms long

Worst case one frame lag of sound to picture is not a visible or audible problem at playback speeds. Sync is to head of picture frame.

The industry standards:

The Advanced Television Systems Committee recommends that audio should lead video by no more than 15 milliseconds and audio should lag video by no more than 45 milliseconds.[4] However, the ITU performed strictly controlled tests with expert viewers and found that the threshold for detectability is -125ms to +45ms.[1] For film, acceptable lip sync is considered to be no more than 22 milliseconds in either direction
Razz

Digital Bolex 2k Cinema DNG raw camera
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Workstation: Intel i7-4770k, Asrock Z87 Thunderbolt 2 MB, 16GB 1866 DDR3 ram,
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Last Edit: 2 weeks, 3 days ago by David Rasberry.

Re: Allign audio for sync in sub frame manner? 2 weeks, 3 days ago #212429

  • schrauber
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  • 2 weeks, 3 days ago
David Rasberry wrote:
If you are syncing double system location sound to picture .. [/b]

I think sound to picture is not what Danas_Anis' problem is about.

David Rasberry wrote:
.. or sync all audio tracks to reference track waveform ..
He would like to be able to do something like this directly in Lightworks (so that, for example, these audio tracks can be mixed without phase shifts being audible).

Because this is currently not possible without third-party software, he has posted a feature request in a different thread.
Mainly automatically translated
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Software: Lightworks 2020.1 & 14.5; || Windows 10, 64 Bit
Hardware: Intel i5-4440 (3,1 GHz); || shared RAM: 8 GB; || Intel HD Graphics 4600 (can use max. 2 GB of shared RAM)
Last Edit: 2 weeks, 3 days ago by schrauber.

Re: Allign audio for sync in sub frame manner? 2 weeks, 3 days ago #212432

  • David Rasberry
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schrauber wrote:
David Rasberry wrote:
If you are syncing double system location sound to picture .. [/b]

I think sound to picture is not what Danas_Anis' problem is about.

David Rasberry wrote:
.. or sync all audio tracks to reference track waveform ..
He would like to be able to do something like this directly in Lightworks (so that, for example, these audio tracks can be mixed without phase shifts being audible).

Because this is currently not possible without third-party software, he has posted a feature request in a different thread.
Razz

Digital Bolex 2k Cinema DNG raw camera
Canon GL2 DV camcorder
iPAD Mini 3 Iographer rig

Workstation: Intel i7-4770k, Asrock Z87 Thunderbolt 2 MB, 16GB 1866 DDR3 ram,
2TB Seagate Hybrid system drive, 2TB Seagate NAS media drive, E-sata III hot swap drive bay, Nvidia GTX760 2GB GPU
Lightworks kybrd. Shuttlepro v2
Win10 Pro 64bit, Lightworks 14.0 64bit

Mobile Workstation: MSI GTX72 Dominator
Intel i7-6700HQ 2.7GHz Win10 64bit
16GB DDR4 ram, 500GB M.2 SSD
Nvidia GTX970 3GB GPU
USB3, USB3.1-C, Thunderbolt 3 ports
Shuttlepro2 Win10 64bit LW 14.0 64 bit

Re: Allign audio for sync in sub frame manner? 2 weeks, 3 days ago #212433

  • David Rasberry
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schrauber wrote:
David Rasberry wrote:
If you are syncing double system location sound to picture .. [/b]

I think sound to picture is not what Danas_Anis' problem is about.

David Rasberry wrote:
.. or sync all audio tracks to reference track waveform ..
He would like to be able to do something like this directly in Lightworks (so that, for example, these audio tracks can be mixed without phase shifts being audible).

Because this is currently not possible without third-party software, he has posted a feature request in a different thread.


When would you be mixing soundtracks from separate sources with waveforms so close to identical that phase shift would be an issue?
Razz

Digital Bolex 2k Cinema DNG raw camera
Canon GL2 DV camcorder
iPAD Mini 3 Iographer rig

Workstation: Intel i7-4770k, Asrock Z87 Thunderbolt 2 MB, 16GB 1866 DDR3 ram,
2TB Seagate Hybrid system drive, 2TB Seagate NAS media drive, E-sata III hot swap drive bay, Nvidia GTX760 2GB GPU
Lightworks kybrd. Shuttlepro v2
Win10 Pro 64bit, Lightworks 14.0 64bit

Mobile Workstation: MSI GTX72 Dominator
Intel i7-6700HQ 2.7GHz Win10 64bit
16GB DDR4 ram, 500GB M.2 SSD
Nvidia GTX970 3GB GPU
USB3, USB3.1-C, Thunderbolt 3 ports
Shuttlepro2 Win10 64bit LW 14.0 64 bit

Re: Allign audio for sync in sub frame manner? 2 weeks, 3 days ago #212444

  • hugly
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I find discussion about practical benefits of this feature request pretty much pointless. An experienced Lightworks user is requesting a feature, because he's convinced that it's useful for some of his workflows, at least two others in this discussion support it.

The basic idea of sub frame trimming of sound is by no means new and the feature has has been requested multiple times. No question, this isn't a mainstream feature and one decade ago no NLE supported it. In the meantime, all major NLE's do support it, but Lightworks doesn't. However, there are many features of that kind. No software will ever have all the features of all competing software, unless it's the only one on the market.

The question is, what is the effort for implementing and does it pay? This question can be answered by Edishare officials only, if it can be answered reliably at all, and thus we'll have to wait for the version after 2020.1 to see what happens.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 2 weeks, 3 days ago by hugly.
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