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TOPIC: Unable to avoid Color Banding

Re: Unable to avoid Color Banding 11 months, 2 weeks ago #208256

  • G0bble
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Apparently GoPro can do it when recording out to an external device but not to sdcard.But that is not an option underwater... I am about to buy a new video rig before my next vacation by Jan-Feb. I am torn between rx100 and Hero7. Does the RX100 do 10-bit? The other challenge with Sony is that LWKS may not work with XAVC-S IIRC .. correct me if I am wrong.

Edit: Just found out - The Sony does not unfortunately... After some current researching found the FUJIFILM X-T3. I need to relocate to a diving destination to justify the expense of the camera+housing though.


I hope to actually start finally and binge-edit 3 to 4 video projects to completion in the coming weeks .. will share once ready.

Cheers
G
Last Edit: 11 months, 2 weeks ago by G0bble.

Re: Unable to avoid Color Banding 11 months, 2 weeks ago #208261

  • hugly
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I have no clue about underwater videography and suitable equipment.

Why not posting related questions in some specific forum, e.g. wetpixel.com/forums/index.php ?
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 11 months, 2 weeks ago by hugly.

Re: Unable to avoid Color Banding 11 months, 2 weeks ago #208263

  • hugly
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On additional note: I don't have any action cam, but from many GoPro samples I've seen, the picture artifacts, including banding, are extreme - very poor image quality. It could well be, that other cameras, even when recording only in 8-bit 4:2:0, provide much better image quality under water than those action cams do.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...

Re: Unable to avoid Color Banding 11 months, 2 weeks ago #208267

  • G0bble
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Just found this community.gopro.com/t5/Cameras/how-to-reduce-colour-banding-on-go-pro-3-black/td-p/339665 but I cant test real world conditions until next vacay so pointless ... by then I will have the hero 7. I guess spending upwards of $2500 on 4:2:0 cameras+housing is pointless for my intermittent usage.

PS: my wifi is always off to conserve battery so it maybe reinstalling firmware might do something although I wonder why and how this can happen/fix in the first place...

G
Last Edit: 11 months, 2 weeks ago by G0bble.

Re: Unable to avoid Color Banding 11 months, 2 weeks ago #208272

  • schrauber
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G0bble wrote:
schrauber wrote:
"Artifacts-blur-Test12" still lacks many important components in the code, so depending on the material and the settings different or even worse results can be expected...


Thanks will try that out in the coming week...
G

I have tested this unfinished effect again on other material. I think that for most of the material the effect in its present state is useless (looks worse than without effect).
Mainly automatically translated
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Software: Lightworks 2020.1.1 & Beta 2021.x; || Windows 10 Home 1909, 64 Bit
Hardware: Intel i5-4440 (3,1 GHz); || RAM: 8 GB; || Intel HD Graphics 4600 (can use max. 2 GB of shared RAM)

Re: Unable to avoid Color Banding 11 months, 2 weeks ago #208341

  • hugly
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G0bble wrote:
I cant test real world conditions until next vacay so pointless ... by then I will have the hero 7. I guess spending upwards of $2500 on 4:2:0 cameras+housing is pointless for my intermittent usage.

I see.

Would you mind sharing some saved frames in PNG format of the original material which show quantization artifacts, like banding and blocking?

I'd like to test some grading LUTs on them.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...

Re: Unable to avoid Color Banding 11 months, 2 weeks ago #208345

  • timzett
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hugly wrote:
By the way, consumer grade devices with 4K h.265 10-bit log recording are coming, or better, they are already there (DJI Mavic 2 Pro)
Does it also provide 4:2:2 color subsampling?
Obviously not:
mavicpilots.com/threads/is-it-4-2-2.46266/
Lwks x64 2020.1 revision 122068, pro license, on Windows 10

HARDWARE:
.Intel Core i7-4710HQ Quad-core 2,50 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 SDRAM
.GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 860M with 4 GB RAM
.Sound: Onboard (Realtek)
.Disks: 250 GB SSD internal (OS/programs), 1 TB SATA internal for source footage

CAMs: Sony PXW-X70, NEX-5n, Xiaomi Yi 1080p
Last Edit: 11 months, 2 weeks ago by timzett.

Re: Unable to avoid Color Banding 11 months, 2 weeks ago #208349

  • hugly
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A few weeks ago, just to test Lightworks HEVC support, it happened that I downloaded an original sample of a DJI Pantom 4 Pro in 4K HEVC 100 Mbps. I was quite impressed of what I see from a camera that's considered to be low end consumer gear.


The original camera file is downloadable from a link in the comment of the Youtube video.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...

Re: Unable to avoid Color Banding 11 months, 2 weeks ago #208351

  • timzett
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Sure. Even commercial productions often use these consumer-grade drones.
First of all much more people are able to fly them, second they are cheap (even if they break), and third they are easier to book than a USD 20,000 clumsy drone.
And even the Mavic 1 was already very, very good regarding the footage coming out, being a good bargain nowadays.

As you noticed, the footage is good enough, actually for any kind of production.
Apart from the fact that nowadays even feature films are being shot with one or more iPhones, and no any other camera gear.

In the end, creativity mostly wins over image quality. People want to be entertained.
Lwks x64 2020.1 revision 122068, pro license, on Windows 10

HARDWARE:
.Intel Core i7-4710HQ Quad-core 2,50 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 SDRAM
.GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 860M with 4 GB RAM
.Sound: Onboard (Realtek)
.Disks: 250 GB SSD internal (OS/programs), 1 TB SATA internal for source footage

CAMs: Sony PXW-X70, NEX-5n, Xiaomi Yi 1080p
Last Edit: 11 months, 2 weeks ago by timzett.

Re: Unable to avoid Color Banding 11 months, 2 weeks ago #208352

  • hugly
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I find this one truly impressive:


Howver, referring to the comment of the video it has been shot with a 8K RED Monstro from helicopter.

I suspect that the rental fee for a helicopter hour is higher than the price of a Phantom 4 including five batteries.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...

Re: Unable to avoid Color Banding 11 months, 2 weeks ago #208353

  • timzett
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hugly wrote:
I suspect that the rental fee for a helicopter hour is higher than the price of a Phantom 4 including five batteries.
Which also means that the helicopter hour is a one-time fun, while the Phantom is yours if you compare it so.
Not to forget the camera rent and the operator, which both will be quite expensive for this kind of gear as well.

Edit: And it doesn't help a lot that the camera footage was 8K, when the Youtube max. resolution is only 4K and highly compressed.

I find this final high-res nonsense nowadays pointless: Many people are not even able to stream 4K, apart from the fact that most of them don't have a proper playback/display device. Leave alone the fact there are many people with slight eye problems, who cannot even distinguish between HD and 4K anyway, at least not at home.
In a big Cinema that might make sense - only.
Lwks x64 2020.1 revision 122068, pro license, on Windows 10

HARDWARE:
.Intel Core i7-4710HQ Quad-core 2,50 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 SDRAM
.GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 860M with 4 GB RAM
.Sound: Onboard (Realtek)
.Disks: 250 GB SSD internal (OS/programs), 1 TB SATA internal for source footage

CAMs: Sony PXW-X70, NEX-5n, Xiaomi Yi 1080p
Last Edit: 11 months, 2 weeks ago by timzett.

Re: Unable to avoid Color Banding 11 months, 2 weeks ago #208354

  • G0bble
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hugly wrote:
G0bble wrote:
I cant test real world conditions until next vacay so pointless ... by then I will have the hero 7. I guess spending upwards of $2500 on 4:2:0 cameras+housing is pointless for my intermittent usage.

I see.

Would you mind sharing some saved frames in PNG format of the original material which show quantization artifacts, like banding and blocking?

I'd like to test some grading LUTs on them.


Here is two grabs taken from potplayer. For some reason they are looking too blurry low-res dunno why.


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Thanks for checking.
G

Re: Unable to avoid Color Banding 11 months, 2 weeks ago #208357

  • timzett
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I think I can tell you what the problem was, since I did underwater photography in the past as well.

During descent, it's crucial to do an in-camera white balance every few (2-3) metres (within the typical scuba-diving limits).
That is because the colors underwhater are shifted apart so extremely, especially in the (infra-)red and (ultra-)violet areas, that it's close to impossible to correct that in post. And even worse:

briandrys wrote:
If you shot using 8 bits it's not going to have any more information in 10 bits.
The extreme color shift inevitably leads to lack of sharpness as well, because important chroma information gets lost. In addition, if there was an autofocus in play it gets even worse, because it cannot handle the focus properly anymore, for the reasons given above.

Lesson learned: For underwater shooting, you wanna make sure you use a camera where it's easy to do a quick WB (on-button-push). Or try a camera which is good in auto WB.

While saying all this, unfortunately your images/frames are irreversibly screwed for the most part.
Except you sell this for a "vintage Jacque-Cousteau-Style" grade. These guys didn't yet have the technique to handle color-shift underwater properly, hence their footage often came out like that as well
Lwks x64 2020.1 revision 122068, pro license, on Windows 10

HARDWARE:
.Intel Core i7-4710HQ Quad-core 2,50 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 SDRAM
.GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 860M with 4 GB RAM
.Sound: Onboard (Realtek)
.Disks: 250 GB SSD internal (OS/programs), 1 TB SATA internal for source footage

CAMs: Sony PXW-X70, NEX-5n, Xiaomi Yi 1080p
Last Edit: 11 months, 2 weeks ago by timzett.

Re: Unable to avoid Color Banding 11 months, 2 weeks ago #208360

  • schrauber
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Here is a test correction with the second image (selective blur & something sharp):
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JPG image (with losses)


For the first image, my effect is currently still unsuitable because it blurs the edges of the fish.

Here as packed lossless PNG images:
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Mainly automatically translated
--------------------------------------------
Software: Lightworks 2020.1.1 & Beta 2021.x; || Windows 10 Home 1909, 64 Bit
Hardware: Intel i5-4440 (3,1 GHz); || RAM: 8 GB; || Intel HD Graphics 4600 (can use max. 2 GB of shared RAM)
Last Edit: 11 months, 2 weeks ago by schrauber.

Re: Unable to avoid Color Banding 11 months, 2 weeks ago #208362

  • hugly
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schrauber wrote:
Here is a test correction with the second image (selective blur & something sharp)

Regarding the heavy blocking and banding, typical for h.264 compression in mid to dark areas of low frequency, the result is not bad.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 11 months, 2 weeks ago by hugly.
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