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TOPIC: [Solved:] Find clips to fill sequence with different codec for proxy files

[Solved:] Find clips to fill sequence with different codec for proxy files 7 months, 3 weeks ago #170129

  • timzett
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The "classical" topic from my side once again:
My Sony PXW-X70 is able to write full resolution and proxy footage simultaneously.
The full resolution footage is XAVC-L 4:2:2 10 bit in a MXF container.
The proxy footage is XAVC/mp42/iso2 4:2:0 8 bit in a MP4 container.

The files have different extensions, .MXF and .MP4
The full resolution footage has 4 audio tracks (XDCAM compliant), while the proxies have 2.

MediaInfo from full resolution footage:
General
Complete name                            : D:\_Test\X70_Proxy\original\Clip0001.MXF
Format                                   : MXF
Format version                           : 1.3
Format profile                           : OP-1a
Format settings                          : Closed / Complete
File size                                : 39.6 MiB
Duration                                 : 6 s 240 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 53.3 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : 2018-02-26 15:53:37.000
Writing application                      : Sony Mem 2.00

Video
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High 4:2:2@L4.2
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=12
Format settings, wrapping mode           : Frame
Codec ID                                 : 0D01030102106001-0401020201316001
Duration                                 : 6 s 240 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 48.7 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 50.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:2
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.469
Stream size                              : 36.2 MiB (91%)
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : IEC 61966-2-4
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

Audio #1
ID                                       : 3
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings, Endianness              : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode           : Frame (AES)
Codec ID                                 : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration                                 : 6 s 240 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 152 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 1 channel
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS (960 spf)
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Stream size                              : 878 KiB (2%)
Locked                                   : Yes

Audio #2
ID                                       : 4
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings, Endianness              : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode           : Frame (AES)
Codec ID                                 : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration                                 : 6 s 240 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 152 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 1 channel
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS (960 spf)
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Stream size                              : 878 KiB (2%)
Locked                                   : Yes

Audio #3
ID                                       : 5
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings, Endianness              : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode           : Frame (AES)
Codec ID                                 : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration                                 : 6 s 240 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 152 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 1 channel
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS (960 spf)
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Stream size                              : 878 KiB (2%)
Locked                                   : Yes

Audio #4
ID                                       : 6
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings, Endianness              : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode           : Frame (AES)
Codec ID                                 : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration                                 : 6 s 240 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 152 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 1 channel
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS (960 spf)
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Stream size                              : 878 KiB (2%)
Locked                                   : Yes

Other #1
ID                                       : 1-Material
Type                                     : Time code
Format                                   : MXF TC
Time code of first frame                 : 00:08:28:40
Time code settings                       : Material Package
Time code, striped                       : Yes

Other #2
ID                                       : 1-Source
Type                                     : Time code
Format                                   : MXF TC
Time code of first frame                 : 00:08:28:40
Time code settings                       : Source Package
Time code, striped                       : Yes

Other #3
ID                                       : 7
Format                                   : Acquisition Metadata
Muxing mode                              : Ancillary data / RDD 18
Duration                                 : 6 s 240 ms
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS
IrisFNumber_FirstFrame                   : 8.000000
FocusPositionFromImagePlane_FirstFrame   : 0.800 m
AutoExposureMode_FirstFrame              : Manual
AutoFocusSensingAreaSetting_FirstFrame   : Manual
CaptureFrameRate_FirstFrame              : 50.000 fps
ShutterSpeed_Time_FirstFrame             : 1/50 s
CameraMasterGainAdjustment_FirstFrame    : 18.00 dB
ElectricalExtenderMagnification_FirstFra : 100%
AutoWhiteBalanceMode_FirstFrame          : One Push

Other #4
Type                                     : Time code
Format                                   : SMPTE TC
Muxing mode                              : SDTI
Time code of first frame                 : 00:08:28:40


MediaInfo from the proxy:
General
Complete name                            : D:\_Test\X70_Proxy\work\Clip0001S03.MP4
Format                                   : XAVC
Codec ID                                 : XAVC (XAVC/mp42/iso2)
File size                                : 8.01 MiB
Duration                                 : 6 s 251 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 10.7 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-02-26 15:53:36
Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-02-26 15:53:36

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : Main@L4
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=12
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 6 s 240 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 8 945 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 16.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 280 pixels
Height                                   : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS
Standard                                 : PAL
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.194
Stream size                              : 6.65 MiB (83%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-02-26 15:53:36
Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-02-26 15:53:36
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : IEC 61966-2-4
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 40
Duration                                 : 6 s 251 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 128 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 spf)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 96.7 KiB (1%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-02-26 15:53:36
Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-02-26 15:53:36

Other #1
ID                                       : 3
Type                                     : Time code
Format                                   : QuickTime TC
Duration                                 : 6 s 240 ms
Time code of first frame                 : 00:08:28:40
Time code, striped                       : Yes
Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-02-26 15:53:36
Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-02-26 15:53:36

Other #2
Type                                     : meta
Duration                                 : 6 s 240 ms

Is there a chance to use "Find clips to fill sequence" to swap such media between hi-res and proxy clips? If so, which settings in the "Find clips to fill sequence" dialogue do I have to choose?
Lwks x64 14.5 revision 108471 (pro license), on Windows 10
HARDWARE PC1:
.Intel Core i7-4710HQ Quad-core 2,50 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 SDRAM
.GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 860M with 4 GB RAM
.Sound: Onboard (Realtek)
.Disks: 250 GB SSD internal (OS/programs), 1 TB internal SATA for editing material
HARDWARE PC2:
.Intel Core2Quad, 8 GB RAM, 800 MHz FSB
.GPU: NVIDIA Quadro 600 with 1 GB DDR3 RAM
.Sound: Focusrite Saffire Pro (FW)
.Disks: 1x 250 GB SSD internal (OS/programs), 1x eSATA II (external) 1 TB for editing material (video and audio)
CAMs: Sony PXW-X70, NEX-5n
Last Edit: 7 months, 3 weeks ago by timzett.

Re: Find clips to fill sequence with different codec for proxy files 7 months, 3 weeks ago #170133

  • hugly
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  • 7 months, 3 weeks ago
Don't know, but Reel ID must match in order to have a chance - which won't on normal import (with the files you shows above).

Use V14.1 because there's trouble with reading TC from mp4 files with V14.0.

Change Reel-ID manually to match from file card in Lightworks. Then select only Primary TC as label for match and hope that differing track layout will be ignored by "Find clips to fill sequence".
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 7 months, 3 weeks ago by hugly.

Re: Find clips to fill sequence with different codec for proxy files 7 months, 3 weeks ago #170141

  • timzett
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After making sure the reel names match it worked - kind of. And I am sure I saw this problem before, somewhat like 2 years back...

If you look at the screenshot you see the settings I used (had to select to patch events to get the replacement done) and also the actual problem:
When clips are being replaced there will be an offset between the original and the replaced ones.

This image is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

What's even more weird is that on the second run, means when I replace proxies again with the originals, clips match with length and position of the first replacement.
So theres one offset generated at the first find/replace run, but the forthcoming ones don't generate any further ones.

There is no frame loss actually as long as you don't delete the unpredictable amount of frames left from the introduced cut points, but those will always be from the initial sources.

I guess that's a bug isn't it?

P.S. I'm aware of the relatively new "Make proxy" feature but it should be obvious why I want to use FctfS: Because when I let the cam create my proxies while I shoot, I don't have to do it later
Lwks x64 14.5 revision 108471 (pro license), on Windows 10
HARDWARE PC1:
.Intel Core i7-4710HQ Quad-core 2,50 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 SDRAM
.GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 860M with 4 GB RAM
.Sound: Onboard (Realtek)
.Disks: 250 GB SSD internal (OS/programs), 1 TB internal SATA for editing material
HARDWARE PC2:
.Intel Core2Quad, 8 GB RAM, 800 MHz FSB
.GPU: NVIDIA Quadro 600 with 1 GB DDR3 RAM
.Sound: Focusrite Saffire Pro (FW)
.Disks: 1x 250 GB SSD internal (OS/programs), 1x eSATA II (external) 1 TB for editing material (video and audio)
CAMs: Sony PXW-X70, NEX-5n
Last Edit: 7 months, 3 weeks ago by timzett.

Re: Find clips to fill sequence with different codec for proxy files 7 months, 3 weeks ago #170142

  • hugly
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Could be.

What happens when disabling "Allow patching of events"? I don't know what it does, I've never used it.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 7 months, 3 weeks ago by hugly.

Re: Find clips to fill sequence with different codec for proxy files 7 months, 3 weeks ago #170143

  • timzett
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Then nothing will happen, respectively nothing will be replaced.

I guess you have to decide whether you want to make the replacement in your existing sequence - then you have to enable patching.
Or you want to let Lightworks create a new sequence with the found clips - then you have to choose "Make copy and fill that".

IMO actually that should be a boolean Or, means instead of 2 indepentent checkboxes your selection must flip to either side, otherwise it's pointless.
Lwks x64 14.5 revision 108471 (pro license), on Windows 10
HARDWARE PC1:
.Intel Core i7-4710HQ Quad-core 2,50 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 SDRAM
.GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 860M with 4 GB RAM
.Sound: Onboard (Realtek)
.Disks: 250 GB SSD internal (OS/programs), 1 TB internal SATA for editing material
HARDWARE PC2:
.Intel Core2Quad, 8 GB RAM, 800 MHz FSB
.GPU: NVIDIA Quadro 600 with 1 GB DDR3 RAM
.Sound: Focusrite Saffire Pro (FW)
.Disks: 1x 250 GB SSD internal (OS/programs), 1x eSATA II (external) 1 TB for editing material (video and audio)
CAMs: Sony PXW-X70, NEX-5n
Last Edit: 7 months, 3 weeks ago by timzett.

Re: Find clips to fill sequence with different codec for proxy files 7 months, 3 weeks ago #170144

  • hugly
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I've successfully switched footage with "Allow patching of events" and "Make copy and fill that" disabled. There must be a missing link.

Looking at your last screenshot, the yellow clip is shorter and starts later than the pink. Obviously Lightworks detects different durations (maybe different start TC as well) which doesn't show in Mediainfo. That might be a reason for not working replacement when "Allow patching of events" is disabled.

What says list view about "Start Time", "End Time" and "Duration" of original and proxy?
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 7 months, 3 weeks ago by hugly.

Re: Find clips to fill sequence with different codec for proxy files 7 months, 3 weeks ago #170145

  • timzett
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What says list view about "Start Time", "End Time" and "Duration" of original and proxy?
You're right: all these values are different. You can even see it in MediaInfo at the "Duration" tag

Oh my, so it seems Lightworks does it right but the cam is not able to create compliant proxy files - which raises the question what is the point of that implementation?
Maybe I should open a user case at Sony. The last firmware update was end of 2016 I think, maybe they are gracious and provide another one...
Lwks x64 14.5 revision 108471 (pro license), on Windows 10
HARDWARE PC1:
.Intel Core i7-4710HQ Quad-core 2,50 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 SDRAM
.GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 860M with 4 GB RAM
.Sound: Onboard (Realtek)
.Disks: 250 GB SSD internal (OS/programs), 1 TB internal SATA for editing material
HARDWARE PC2:
.Intel Core2Quad, 8 GB RAM, 800 MHz FSB
.GPU: NVIDIA Quadro 600 with 1 GB DDR3 RAM
.Sound: Focusrite Saffire Pro (FW)
.Disks: 1x 250 GB SSD internal (OS/programs), 1x eSATA II (external) 1 TB for editing material (video and audio)
CAMs: Sony PXW-X70, NEX-5n

Re: Find clips to fill sequence with different codec for proxy files 7 months, 3 weeks ago #170147

  • hugly
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If gods of broadcast standards at Sony won't, the internal proxies do a good job..

Nonetheless, posting this issue in recent beta forums with a download link to your clips will give Lightworks staff a chance to check what's going on.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...

Re: Find clips to fill sequence with different codec for proxy files 7 months, 3 weeks ago #170148

  • timzett
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I'd first rather try a proxy workflow with one of our nicely combined ffmpeg command lines

Case at Sony Prime Support opened.
Not sure if we should bug Lightworks staff with something to be solved by someone else.
Lwks x64 14.5 revision 108471 (pro license), on Windows 10
HARDWARE PC1:
.Intel Core i7-4710HQ Quad-core 2,50 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 SDRAM
.GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 860M with 4 GB RAM
.Sound: Onboard (Realtek)
.Disks: 250 GB SSD internal (OS/programs), 1 TB internal SATA for editing material
HARDWARE PC2:
.Intel Core2Quad, 8 GB RAM, 800 MHz FSB
.GPU: NVIDIA Quadro 600 with 1 GB DDR3 RAM
.Sound: Focusrite Saffire Pro (FW)
.Disks: 1x 250 GB SSD internal (OS/programs), 1x eSATA II (external) 1 TB for editing material (video and audio)
CAMs: Sony PXW-X70, NEX-5n
Last Edit: 7 months, 3 weeks ago by timzett.

Re: Find clips to fill sequence with different codec for proxy files 7 months, 3 weeks ago #170149

  • hugly
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Of course, your choice but, the new options have taken internal proxy workflow to next level, including the known comfortable switching on the fly.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...

Re: Find clips to fill sequence with different codec for proxy files 7 months, 3 weeks ago #170193

  • timzett
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hugly wrote:
Of course, your choice but, the new options have taken internal proxy workflow to next level, including the known comfortable switching on the fly.
I completely revised this post here so don't be surprised you had something different in mind

Yes, I agree that the proxy feature within Lightworks is very good meanwhile.
You can create proxies to work with them in the timeline right away, and later when you decide to delete them, the original hi-res clips will be re-used.
What I also like is the possibility to switch between different proxy codecs, resolutions and qualities.
I probably go for that one and give it a fair chance
Lwks x64 14.5 revision 108471 (pro license), on Windows 10
HARDWARE PC1:
.Intel Core i7-4710HQ Quad-core 2,50 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 SDRAM
.GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 860M with 4 GB RAM
.Sound: Onboard (Realtek)
.Disks: 250 GB SSD internal (OS/programs), 1 TB internal SATA for editing material
HARDWARE PC2:
.Intel Core2Quad, 8 GB RAM, 800 MHz FSB
.GPU: NVIDIA Quadro 600 with 1 GB DDR3 RAM
.Sound: Focusrite Saffire Pro (FW)
.Disks: 1x 250 GB SSD internal (OS/programs), 1x eSATA II (external) 1 TB for editing material (video and audio)
CAMs: Sony PXW-X70, NEX-5n
Last Edit: 7 months, 3 weeks ago by timzett.

Re: Find clips to fill sequence with different codec for proxy files 7 months, 2 weeks ago #170560

  • timzett
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Maybe this question sounds stupid or maybe someone tried it already, who knows:
What happens if I keep the Lightworks internal proxies present in the timeline, and then export it?
Will Lightworks be aware on the original quality of my clips and use them as a source, or will it render the export using the proxy files?
Lwks x64 14.5 revision 108471 (pro license), on Windows 10
HARDWARE PC1:
.Intel Core i7-4710HQ Quad-core 2,50 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 SDRAM
.GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 860M with 4 GB RAM
.Sound: Onboard (Realtek)
.Disks: 250 GB SSD internal (OS/programs), 1 TB internal SATA for editing material
HARDWARE PC2:
.Intel Core2Quad, 8 GB RAM, 800 MHz FSB
.GPU: NVIDIA Quadro 600 with 1 GB DDR3 RAM
.Sound: Focusrite Saffire Pro (FW)
.Disks: 1x 250 GB SSD internal (OS/programs), 1x eSATA II (external) 1 TB for editing material (video and audio)
CAMs: Sony PXW-X70, NEX-5n
Last Edit: 7 months, 2 weeks ago by timzett.

Re: Find clips to fill sequence with different codec for proxy files 7 months, 2 weeks ago #170562

  • hugly
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In Project panel you can set "Video.Output.Playback media quality". It controls the source to be used when editing. On export, Lightworks switches automatically to original source files, even when the parameter is set to "Lowest available".
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 7 months, 2 weeks ago by hugly.

Re: Find clips to fill sequence with different codec for proxy files 7 months, 2 weeks ago #170568

  • timzett
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Wow, that's absolutely cool.
They made it in a way one really can keep the brain away from it

Do you also know whether the proxy files will be deleted from the Material folder when the entire project is being deleted?
Lwks x64 14.5 revision 108471 (pro license), on Windows 10
HARDWARE PC1:
.Intel Core i7-4710HQ Quad-core 2,50 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 SDRAM
.GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 860M with 4 GB RAM
.Sound: Onboard (Realtek)
.Disks: 250 GB SSD internal (OS/programs), 1 TB internal SATA for editing material
HARDWARE PC2:
.Intel Core2Quad, 8 GB RAM, 800 MHz FSB
.GPU: NVIDIA Quadro 600 with 1 GB DDR3 RAM
.Sound: Focusrite Saffire Pro (FW)
.Disks: 1x 250 GB SSD internal (OS/programs), 1x eSATA II (external) 1 TB for editing material (video and audio)
CAMs: Sony PXW-X70, NEX-5n
Last Edit: 7 months, 2 weeks ago by timzett.

Re: Find clips to fill sequence with different codec for proxy files 7 months, 2 weeks ago #170569

  • hugly
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  • 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Yes, with V14.1 reliably, as far as I can see and could test, but internal media space (all Media Locations used for the project) must be online/accessible.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
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