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TOPIC: What do you think of Lightworks Communication Strategy ?

What do you think of Lightworks Communication Strategy ? 7 years, 2 months ago #25997

  • fperissel
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Hello folks !

I'd like to have your opinion about the two following suggestions :

1) The Lightworks / roadmap web page exists but misses something essential to give some kind of useful information :

more or less precise previsional DATES of when the developpment steps should be accomplished would be nice ... A roadmap with some kind of Time Schedule seems a minimum which is not met today ...

We don't expect the deadlines to be perfectly met though, but it would be better than having the poor forum admin trying to keep everybody patient by promising that everything will be available ... soon ... quite soon ... almost soon ... very quite almost soon and all other endless variations ...

How long is "soon" for the first Linux Ubuntu Beta release for example ?
two weeks ? one month ? six months ? more than one year ?
I was pleased to see this annoncement about a pre-alpha linux version :
Video of Lightworks running in Ubuntu
but "the not to distant future" announced in this post is just an other variant of the "soon" method ...

2) a blog with the "work in progress" announcements regarding software developpment would be nice too. anyone other for it ?


P.S. like many others I'm waiting for a linux version of LWKS or eventually for a Mac OS X version of LWKS (but this one will be the last to be released I guess ...)
Last Edit: 7 years, 2 months ago by fperissel. Reason: link not properly set

Re: What do you think of Lightworks Communication Strategy ? 7 years, 2 months ago #26024

  • Greg_E
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I think they should change the wording to:

"It will be ready when it is ready."

This is because far too many people see something, decide that it is set in stone, and complain when it is missed. They should probably stop updating everything until it is available like all the other companies do.

Re: What do you think of Lightworks Communication Strategy ? 7 years, 2 months ago #26031

  • mediaDS
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@fperissel

I am actually fed up with such questions. You may have overlooked the already existing thread about the linux availability. Starting new threads of already answered issues won't speed up development.

So, maybe you should go to the mentioned Linux thread and add your "I want my Linux version now" posting there.

As Greg said: It's ready when it's ready.

There is absolutely no reason to ask the same dull question over and over again.

good night and good luck

Dieter
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Re: What do you think of Lightworks Communication Strategy ? 7 years, 2 months ago #26042

  • belindah_au
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Hi fperissel

I appreciate the interest in knowing more specific "whens" and "hows" of other developments.

I myself am working with a bunch of devs (not in film/tv industry though!) and the number of blow-outs we have on the "yep, you'll have this deliverable by such-and-such a date" frustrates everybody!!!

and so I imagine it is with devs everywhere! I'd rather the blowout to ensure a great product. sometimes you just can't predict the dates.

with there being so many questions posted re availability of lwks on mac / linux, it would look rude for these people to not be answered and so they are by the awesome Forum Admin as best he can - it's just not the answer some people are looking for!

it just happens. I'm interested to see it on mac myself but I'm perfectly happy knowing they're working on it. I also have faith that once it's ready, we will all know about it.

to me, "soon" means just that... they're working on it, not shelving it - but without a completed end product, "soon" is all they can say while it's in progress.

lwks for windows was promised and voila! we have it! (awesome it is) I encourage you to have faith on their follow-through on the next stages.

Just my two cents.
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Last Edit: 7 years, 2 months ago by belindah_au.

Re: What do you think of Lightworks Communication Strategy ? 7 years, 2 months ago #26044

  • jwrl
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You should really check out nicholasbishop.net/wordpress/?p=494 - a link that I first posted in that same Linux thread that MediaDS referred to. I can totally understand and sympathize with your impatience, but it really will be ready when it's ready.

"Are we there yet" postings will achieve nothing.

Re: What do you think of Lightworks Communication Strategy ? 7 years, 2 months ago #26055

  • Greg_E
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I am really interested in seeing how well it runs on Linux.

Re: What do you think of Lightworks Communication Strategy ? 7 years, 2 months ago #26066

  • Great White
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I am really interested in seeing how well it runs on Linux.

The user-interface feels every bit as responsive as the Windows version. The OpenGL performance (on ATI at least) is much slower than DirectX on Windows. Plenty more head-scratching to do yet..
Lightworks Development
Last Edit: 7 years, 2 months ago by Great White.

Re: What do you think of Lightworks Communication Strategy ? 7 years, 2 months ago #26076

  • rickard
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I think that what alot of us linux people wants is not more "dates".
But rather rather more transparency. We are all used to closly following interesting applications "development-process" since so much is open source in the linux-world.

We are used to seeing small annoncemnts from the dev-team trying to explain what they are working on. And were also used to be able to download some unstable-daily-build and see for ourselfs how much is yet to be done.
And if its super unstable, no one cares or bitches about it, Its a daily build for christ sake!

But all that is missing from Lwks, and it's really annoying. And it messes up us linux-users perception on how much time is left. Since most apps that don't update us on their progress or realsese an unstable-release is generally a dead project.

So therefor people become unpatiant/afraid and make annoying posts.

Re: What do you think of Lightworks Communication Strategy ? 7 years, 2 months ago #26077

  • mediaDS
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@rickard

And you are the best example of such annoying and unneccessary posts.

Lightworks is still not an Open-Source project nor do the developers have to say anything about their progress. The Linux people do not have the right to demand any progress informations. Nor do they have the right to demand a time schedule from the developers. Lightworks was, is and will be a commercial product, no matter if parts of the source will be licensed as Open-Source at a later time. Releasing parts of Lightworks as Open-Source does not mean you get a fully working software with all bells and whistles and codecs to use in Linux.

Again, its ready when its ready. Just be patient and let them work for crying out loud. Please.
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Last Edit: 7 years, 2 months ago by mediaDS.

Re: What do you think of Lightworks Communication Strategy ? 7 years, 2 months ago #26079

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We all agree that we need better communication and we're working on that. You will see some tangible improvements. We're not trying to be secretive about anything! We're still working on a maintenance release for the Windows version to fix the installation issues and a few other things.

So a lot of the things that would apply to Open Source software don't apply here - although we do give virtually daily builds to our approved team of Alpha testers.

You are going to get a lot more timely information from Editshare, including from the developers and other people who work with Lightworks.

We just don't have a great mechanism for this yet, but it will change over the next few weeks.

In fact, so many people have registered for Lightworks that our community is one of the biggest in the entire moving image industry - so we're going to make sure that it's kept properly informed about Lightworks and the way things are going with the whole industry. Watch this space!

Re: What do you think of Lightworks Communication Strategy ? 7 years, 2 months ago #26082

  • rickard
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@mediaDS

Ok?
I fail to see your logic.

Why is my post that tries to explain why you see so many annoying posts the most annoying?

Why would what I posted imply that the "developers have to say anything"? And at which point did I "demand" anything? I merly was trying to explain.

Why would lwks being a comrecial product be in the way of it being an opensource project?
An it is most deffenetly an opensource project. The developing we are talking about is alot about them rewritng the code so they can opensource it.

And why would they not make a working linux application? And who has requested that they include "all bells and whistles and codecs"? We allready have all the codecs we need.

The reason as to wich people want daily-releases and updates on the progress is to get help with finding bugs and soultions to development problems. How is that not leting them work?
It's all about helping out and giving back to the developers.
But to truly help out you need transperancy.

Re: What do you think of Lightworks Communication Strategy ? 7 years, 2 months ago #26085

  • mediaDS
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rickard wrote:
@mediaDS
I fail to see your logic.

Your problem, not mine.

Why is my post that tries to explain why you see so many annoying posts the most annoying?

I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth that I haven't said, please.

An it is most deffenetly an opensource project. The developing we are talking about is alot about them rewritng the code so they can opensource it.

No, that is what you don't understand. They work on it to make a stable and usefull release in the order Windows - Linux - MacOS.

And why would they not make a working linux application? And who has requested that they include "all bells and whistles and codecs"? We allready have all the codecs we need.

You missunderstood me here. What you must understand is that there is propriety code in Lightworks which can not be published as Open-Source.

The reason as to wich people want daily-releases and updates on the progress is to get help with finding bugs and soultions to development problems. How is that not leting them work? It's all about helping out and giving back to the developers.
But to truly help out you need transperancy.

No. That might be the case in your Linux World.You can't expect the same here. I believe that Editshare and all the Forum Admins and Devs are as transparent as they can be. There is no need to demand even more.

But anyway, I am giving up here, it's annoying enough.

Good luck

Dieter

PS:

I am a Linux and Windows User myself. I'd love to have a working Lightworks as soon as possible. But I do know how much work that is due to my own experiences. So I am patient and don't nag the devs or admins each day with release dates and such. I am just patient and wait. They will definately announce the release of software right here. When it's ready.
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Last Edit: 7 years, 2 months ago by mediaDS.

Re: What do you think of Lightworks Communication Strategy ? 7 years, 2 months ago #26087

  • rickard
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@mediaDS

Ok it seams I could discuss this with you forever, and that's not in anyones intrerest. I just wanted to answer the question of what I thought about Lightworks Communication Stragtegy. And also try and explain my theory as to why so many linux users seam to be eager for more information.
I'm sorry my answer annoyed you.

But you shouldn't be rude and assume that I'm one of those linux-users that spamms date-requests. I'm also waiting patientntly and I don't nag the devs.

I just think that lwks would gain alot by beeing more transparant and releasing more linux daily builds. Leting the community come with feadback and help out. And they certainly don't have to realease all the source-code for that to work.


@Admin

I'm in the Alpha team but I haven't seen any linuxbuilds. Don't even know where the alpha-team-site is now after the launch of lwks.com.

Re: What do you think of Lightworks Communication Strategy ? 7 years, 2 months ago #26095

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To everyone in this topic: Thanks for your enthusiasm.

This is a fascinating and exciting project and that's why people want information about it. As I said, we're going to improve the way we communicate. I don't think we do badly compared to other companies (how many others let their top developers talk on the forums with users? - of free software!). Please don't get annoyed with each other: we'd rather answer the same question over and over again rather than not have any interest at all.

But what we can't do at this stage is support an almost infinite number of external developers. That would bog us down and virtually stop any further development. It's nice to think that we could all co-operate and that would speed things up but the reality is that we have the top Lightworks developers in the universe working for us now, and that almost defines itself as being the most effective way to do things while the software is not Open Source.

I just want to clarify: the Linux version is not in Alpha testing yet. The almost daily builds I was referring to were for the next release of the Windows version.

Re: What do you think of Lightworks Communication Strategy ? 7 years, 2 months ago #26104

  • rickard
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Forum Admin wrote:

But what we can't do at this stage is support an almost infinite number of external developers. That would bog us down and virtually stop any further development. It's nice to think that we could all co-operate and that would speed things up but the reality is that we have the top Lightworks developers in the universe working for us now, and that almost defines itself as being the most effective way to do things while the software is not Open Source.


Ok I understand that it might be hard to go from one way of working to another way in a short amount of time. And I appreciate your answer.
But your way of thinking does remind me alot of the way people thought about open source before linux became what it is today.
That kaos that comes from having an unlimited amount of developers isn't necissaraly a bad thing. It tends to become a breading ground to innovative ideas and very strong code. It might sound unrealistic but Linux is the proof that it works.
The kaos of open source is the strenght of open source.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not demanding that you release everyhting as open source today.
I understand that it would not be possible with licenses and stuff. But your way of thinking that all theese developers would bog you down, and that keeping a small elite as your development team is not very healthy and honestly not very realistict.
What I suggesst is just more transperancy and leting people help you with testing and coming with ideas.
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