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TOPIC: Please, let us know what is happening with the Mac version.

Please, let us know what is happening with the Mac version. 5 years, 9 months ago #58953

  • DJAnt1
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Hello.

I've been checking the forums on the Mac version topic, and I must say I am really confused by the lack of response to the questions asked by Mac users interested in the development of LWKS for this platform.



Polite requests to know about its progress have been made, seconded by other members:
www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=29&id=41092&limit=15&limitstart=15&Itemid=81

People have pointed out that 2013 is ending and received no answer - unless that "Patience Grasshopper" was an official response, which I hope wasn't:
www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=29&id=8951&limit=15&limitstart=135&Itemid=81

Users have been offering themselves all over to be alpha, beta, gamma, epsilon testers, even through a dedicated topic:
www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=29&id=43734&Itemid=81



And to all that, the answer is - well, there is no answer.

I am aware that LightWorks was originally created for Windows so it would logically be created for that widely popular platform first. I understand that the Linux version is a first step programming towards a Mac version, so it would be the second one appearing.

But I honestly don't see why there cannot be an answer, even if it is to say "we are having problems, we do not know when it will be ready". I understand the program is almost free (having certain codecs on the pro version has a cost if they want to release it to the public, so there go your $60) and that therefore we cannot expect much resources going to its development, but whatever happens, I think the way to gain and keep our trust is not by giving us silence.

The Mac version was announced over 2 years ago. It is a long time, which might not be enough for developing it, but it should be enough to let people know what is happening, at least in general lines.

Why am I asking this? I guess for the same reason other Mac users are: we are very, very interested in this NLE system. Since the FCPX fiasco (although apparently it has been widely improved by now) many people started looking for a different editing software (and many of them were tired of Apple precisely due to their silence politics). Some went to Adobe, some to Avid, and I guess some of us are still waiting for LWKS to come out.

I considered at one point learning (insert that other NLE here) and even investing in a copy - there have been offers for jobs using that program during these two years. I chose LightWorks then, and waited for it. But it's been over two years and it looks like waiting even more won't change things, so i might as well not lose those future jobs in (insert that other NLE here). I mean, nobody has told us otherwise. It seems logical to think that if LightWorks were in need of testers they would have picked some of the guys on the line, and if the Mac version were almost ready we'd have been told so by now.

And there would have been great rejoicing.

I cannot stress this enough: I am asking for information because I am VERY interested in LightWorks and I want to know what are the chances of the Mac version appearing, well, let's say before March 2014. Do you have good reason to believe that will happen? Are you having trouble and you consider August to be more likely? Is there reason to suspect that we'll have to wait until 2015?

Please, don't keep us in the darkness. Let us know what is happening so we can make an informed decision since there are other NLE out there. I know Mac users are a small group, but still, it's just some basic information we are asking for.

Thank you.
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Re: Please, let us know what is happening with the Mac version. 5 years, 9 months ago #58955

  • briandrys
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Not speaking for Lightworks, but version 11.5 is due for release at the need of January. It looks like version 12 should go into beta shortly after that Version 12 seems to be the 3 platform version.
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Re: Please, let us know what is happening with the Mac version. 5 years, 9 months ago #59044

  • roger9999
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I agree totally. I'm only here looking for where that OSX version is, or if there is any news about it. Everytime I'm surprised there is no news, nothing in the forums. I check about every other month. I am waiting for this release, use iMovie now and don't want to spend the money on FCP knowing this should be released three months ago.

If we have to wait for version 12, that means another delay of 6 months or something? Why doesn't anybody from LWKS give us an update?
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Re: Please, let us know what is happening with the Mac version. 5 years, 9 months ago #59046

  • briandrys
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I suspect they're operating the same method as RED now uses. They only announce things when they know it's happening. RED used to give all sorts of dates which usually past without anything happening.

From the past, experience has shown that developing software tends to take longer than you think. There are lots of projects that have overrun because it's taken longer to write the software.

If they bring out the version 12 beta as quickly as 11.5 beta came after 11.1.1 beta finished, it won't be 6 months to the beta testing. Although how long to the release version would takes depends on how many bugs have to be fixed. My impression is that the 11.1.1 beta took longer than they were hoping.
Last Edit: 5 years, 9 months ago by briandrys.
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Re: Please, let us know what is happening with the Mac version. 5 years, 9 months ago #59054

  • roger9999
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I know that these things take time, and usually longer than expected. And if they change policy and only announce things when they're ready, OK. But at least let us know that it works like this. The last announcement was the end of quarter 3 of 2013 if I'm correct. That's three months ago. That is not the way they should communicate.
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Re: Please, let us know what is happening with the Mac version. 5 years, 9 months ago #59385

  • Jui
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I know these requests and questions about the release of the Mac version are endless, and some people are probably tired of them. On the other hand, I think it is important to let the developers know there are people out there eagerly awaiting for the OSX version. The efforts of the developers are not for nothing, there is actually a crowd out there, waiting.

I am one of that crowd. Every time I get the latest Redshark News email, I hope the topic is the release of the Mac version of LW. I, too, come to this forum every month or so, in the hope that maybe David S. just has somehow missed this release and the product is actually out there, even though it hasn't been reported in RSN. I know this is a completely ridiculous idea, as this release certainly would not go unnoticed. It does not, however, stop me from hoping.

So why am I waiting? 1) Because I used to edit on LW, when it was still a dedicated package, including the 486 PC, and I just loved it more than any other NLE. 2) Because I don't have a PC (I'm editing on FCP now). 3) Because, although I know I will probably have to invest in a new computer system, be it Mac or PC, I want to see what this baby can do, before I invest in anything. After all, it has been years since I last edited on LW, and it is probably quite different nowadays, hopefully for the better.

Rather than just asking for information about the release date, I would like to throw something else out there too. What sorts of system requirements are we expecting for the Mac version? I know this might be a difficult question, and I am not necessarily looking for the exact specs, but I am hoping someone is able to give even a rough estimate. Is this version likely to run on a Macbook Pro that's three years old or only on the very latest and most powerful desktop version?

The reason for asking this is simple: if I have to upgrade my system anyway, I suppose it doesn't really matter if I go for the PC version, which I can do right now, as I won't be able to even test LW on my Mac regardless of how long I wait. If, on the other hand, my old system is likely to be able to handle this, I'll just hang on to my FCP and wait for the Mac version. And maybe then buy a dedicated PC and wonder why I ever waited for the Mac version...

In any case, I want to wish the developers all the best. And yes, any further information will be greatly appreciated, whenever you have any to share with us.
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Re: Please, let us know what is happening with the Mac version. 5 years, 9 months ago #59397

  • conleec
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I won't be taking advantage of their special Pro offer, because it's not transferable to another system (unless something has changed) and I'm waiting for the Mac version. If they make the license transferable, then I'd probably pick it up with the idea that the Mac version will be available someday. I hope.

Although eMagic has recently scuttled their attempts at Samplitude for Mac, so maybe something similar is afoot here?

Chris
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Re: Please, let us know what is happening with the Mac version. 5 years, 9 months ago #59420

  • jwrl
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Chris, I would have thought that since OS-X is Unix based, once the Linux bugs have been ironed out the Mac version should follow pretty closely. Which is the line that Editshare have been taking all along.

I would that the development team working on Linux at the moment will be pretty much the same team that finalizes the OS-X port. Of course, Apple's recent release of Mavericks and the problems it has brought with it may have something to do with delays too.
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Re: Please, let us know what is happening with the Mac version. 5 years, 8 months ago #60089

  • DJAnt1
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Well.

3 weeks have passed since this topic started, and sadly, there is no answer from the LWKS team yet.

Some might think that is because December is a very busy month, but if you check the first link that I mention in the post above, two months and a half ago another user asked for "an update from Lightworks about progress on the Mac version", pointing out that 6 MONTHS BEFORE that version had been previewed at NAB - look what EditShare had to say about it:

www.editshare.com/about/about-us/press/item/110-pr-lightworks-for-mac-nab-preview

And we're still waiting, not only for the program to come out but for the developers to tell us something, ANYTHING, but they keep on ignoring us. It's really frustrating.

Anyway, since there is no answer from the LWKS team, I guess we can still talk between us:

@briandrys, I know you're not speaking for LWKS (actually, no one is), I just wanted to ask where did you hear that version 12 "seems to be the 3 platform version". The problem is, without accurate and official information all we can do is assume, speculate and hope. I checked the announcement for version 11.5.f (go to the top of the page and click on the orange link) and the Mac version is mentioned on two features ("YouTube export option" and "AC3 audio decode support") but it is clearly a version made for Lin and Win only. We don't have more information (if you do, please share it! And tell us where did it come from), so saying that "If they bring out the version 12 beta [...] it won't be 6 months to the beta testing" and that after January "version 12 should go into beta shortly after" are only, well, hopes (that I share with you) and speculations.

@roger9999, exactly my point(s). We're all waiting for this, there are no news about it, no answers to the questions, we need the software (or want to try it to see if we decide to use it), it was offered a while ago... and silence is not the way a serious company should communicate. Quoting your post "If we have to wait for version 12, that means another delay of 6 months or something? Why doesn't anybody from LWKS give us an update? "

@Jui, I think the developers should know "there are people out there eagerly awaiting for the OSX version"! Check other topics on the Mac section, many users asked how they could be beta testers (and received NO answer as far as I can tell). Many of us are asking for news about its development, and even if Mac users are only a small crowd, I think we deserve to have an idea of what is happening. You also mention something I had not considered and that is very important: What will the system requirements be? I personally have been considering buying a non-Mac computer for a while, so just like you, I wonder if my current Mac will handle LWKS. Should we keep on waiting? Also, it's cool to find someone who has actually used the software! And the fact that you want to use LightWorks again and are willing to wait only speaks well of it (See? We want your software, LWKS! Please tell us something!)

@conleec, I took the webinar (go to the top of the page and click on the FIRST orange link) and I received the offer, I answered with an e-mail saying that I would be VERY interested in the Pro offer for Mac - did they know anything about the version for that platform? And no answer so far.

@jwrl, it seems logical to think that "since OS-X is Unix based, once the Linux bugs have been ironed out the Mac version should follow pretty closely". That sounds a solid reasoning to me, and given that the Linux version is announced for... according to the announcement link above: "the release date for 11.5 will be 29th January 2014 (This may even be moved forward slightly)" it would seem that a Mac version might be close. But in that case, why doesn't anyone in the LWKS team communicate that officially? I don't think Mavericks has anything to do: this version was announced back in 2011 as far as I can know for sure, and 2008 if (IF) we believe one of the comments here:

nofilmschool.com/2013/04/editshare-lightworks-for-mac/comment-page-1/#comment-730878

So... please, LightWorks... let us know what is happening with the Mac version. We are very interested in your program and want to try it. Thanks a lot.
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Re: Please, let us know what is happening with the Mac version. 5 years, 8 months ago #60099

  • briandrys
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My assumption on version 12 is only based on the direction that Lightworks seems to be going. That Lightworks people have said that 11.5 is the half way point to version 12 and since 11.5 runs on both Windows and Linux, it does seem to indicate that a Mac version completes this.

It would also match in with the time scale from when the Linux version was announced to when it went public beta. I think that Lightworks want to get the Mac version out because the OS has a large hold in the industry, but I sense they want a pretty robust public beta version, so it can't be claimed to be buggy, even in the early stages.

Having the release version 12 coming out at or slightly after NAB also makes sense.
Last Edit: 5 years, 8 months ago by briandrys.
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Re: Please, let us know what is happening with the Mac version. 5 years, 8 months ago #60151

  • Jui
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@DJAnt1

I share your frustration. However, as you probably gathered, I did not want to be too hard on the LW team. The reason is quite simple, really: the product is free.

Of course it's great when you get something for free (or virtually for free), but that unfortunately also means you can't really demand much of the developers. They'll release what they want, when and how they want - and they provide the level of support they choose. Since you are not paying them, you are not in a position to really demand anything of them. You then have to make the choice of whether or not you want to depend on that product, especially in a professional context.

I am personally confident that the team has the best intentions, that's not the question. But one gets what one pays for.

I do not know if anyone is interested, but as you sort of expressed an interest in the fact that I have previous experience with LW, I'll share some of my views. Maybe this will also provide some positive vibes some people feel are missing... These are, however, just my personal opinions, so people can feel free to disagree.

I worked as an editor, assistant editor and a system admin on a Lightworks system for a few years in the late 90's. I also provided support and training to other editors, who were less familiar with the system. My editing work was, of course, system independent, so I feel I could evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of the system.

One of the biggest weaknesses was, in my opinion, the fact that the dedicated system was quite expensive, so most companies in my area ended up using Avid and later FCP. That meant a) that there weren't many LW systems available in the area and b) that most editors were unfamiliar with the system and didn't feel the need to learn it. Many avoided the system and if they had to use it for a project, they ended up trying to use LW in the same manner they used Avid, which was not the most effective way - and many ended up feeling LW was inferior. I'm not saying this was a universal phenomenon, but this seemed to be the case with many editors I interacted with.

Another thing was that Lightworks looked quite different from any other system. What I felt was intuitive and sort of funny, many others felt was strange and psychedelic. You know, creating a "door" to create a "room", which is your main work space, having a "toolbox" that has screwdrivers and other tools that looked like they were drawn by a kid. Eating things with a red shark when you wanted to get rid of them... This was a bit too much for some people.

The system had great many strengths, which left me with a warm feeling towards it. First of all, it was a real-time system. All basic transitions, even speed changes and reverse clips were played back in real time, while you might have to render the same things on some other systems. Second of all, you did not need to save anything at any time. When you exited a room and went back, everything was just the way you had left it. This leads to the third great thing, which was that you could place your tools in your rooms any way you wanted, while on other systems the layouts were much more rigid. And remember, you could have as many separate rooms as you wanted. One for syncing, on for rough cutting and so on. The fourth thing was the best trimming function I have seen to date. You could open any number of cuts from any sides simultaneously and scrub back and forth, even just press play. At the same time, on Avid, you had to just click the +1 or +5 frames buttons to trim. When you had to trim the cut to fit the movement of the camera or the objects in the frame, LW was the king. Having edited on Steenbecks, I also liked the console. Most other systems just utilized your standard keyboards and a mouse. It was nice to have an interface that was specifically designed for editing purposes. Even the "mark and park" system was pretty handy, when you got the hang of it. Add to that the fact that you could just play clips directly from the thumbnails (and once you stopped, the thumbnail would always reflect the frame where you left the clip) and some other handy features, and you could really say that LW was a very innovative and great tool for editing. I could see how it was actually designed by editors and not by engineers, just as they stated.

I have to also say that LW is the only system I know, that people still talk about with warmth, even though they haven't even used it for fifteen years or so. It was innovative, kind of weird, kind of funny and light-hearted, but also really powerful. Just the kind of a system I can appreciate.

Now, it seems the look is more conservative, more boring even. Also, times have changed and other vendors have had the chance to catch up. Not having tried the new LW, I don't know how it compares with other modern systems. It could be it does not have all the things that once made it great, or maybe the things just don't seem as great anymore. I don't know. What I do know is that I want to find out. When I heard they had discontinued the development, my hart sank, and when I heard it was available again (and this time for free, no less), my heart leapt. The fact that it is cheaper than the competing products, removes the two biggest weaknesses the system used to have. If they have kept all the strengths and added some more, it is definitely worth the wait.

As I said, this is just my opinion. Sorry for the lengthy post.
Last Edit: 5 years, 8 months ago by Jui.
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Re: Please, let us know what is happening with the Mac version. 5 years, 8 months ago #60156

  • conleec
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I'm with Jul on this. It's hard to rant too hard about a company that's basically giving a sophisticated program like this away for free. I will be purchasing the Pro license as soon as it becomes available for Mac. I already took advantage of one of the holiday 50% off offers on the console. So I wait patiently. In the meantime, I make my living cutting on Avid.
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Re: Please, let us know what is happening with the Mac version. 5 years, 8 months ago #60157

  • roger9999
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I know this product is free, and I do appreciate the effort done here. On the other hand, I realise that although it's free, a Mac version is still important for the company, as more and more people are buying Macs instead of Windows computers.

I don't mind if they tell us that they are not sure when the OSX version will be out. Maybe they plan for next month, and then some issues come up and it takes another two months. Another option would be to tell us that they are not going to tell us anything until it's ready for beta release. (So communicate about not communicating!)

Even better - they could create a subscription page where you can leave your email address so you get a notification when the beta or the normal release is out. Then they don't have to give a date, they don't have to explain when/why deadlines are not met. I would prefer an estimate of a deadline, but this is a good alternative.
Last Edit: 5 years, 8 months ago by roger9999.
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Re: Please, let us know what is happening with the Mac version. 5 years, 8 months ago #60160

  • Jui
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@roger9999

I like your idea of a subscription page, that would be cool. Not only would people be notified by email when the first version is out, but the company would also have clear knowledge of how many people want the product.

When it comes to the importance or irrelevance of the OSX version, I'd like to point something quite obvious out once again. I, for one, have worked with many companies that currently have several FCP suites each. Most companies are thinking of migrating to other systems, as they don't see Final Cut X as a viable option. That leaves us with a huge number of companies with Mac based edits, complete with I/O cards, Aja boxes and the works. If they could then just instal LW on those systems and not have to upgrade the hardware, I think that would easily be an instantaneous success. You see, they would have to train their people in any case, so migrating to a system such as Lightworks would not be an issue.

I have already seen one company move to a totally unsuitable system, which I do not want to name here. Let's just say that Lightworks certainly would have been a million times better.

The sooner LW is released on OSX, the more former FCP users they can attract. I'm sure the people at Lightworks are aware of this and want to release a properly functional version as soon as they can. The other side of the coin is, of course, that the first released version has to satisfy the professional users they are trying to attract. They only have one chance to give a first impression...
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Re: Please, let us know what is happening with the Mac version. 5 years, 8 months ago #60161

  • mediaDS
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Hi Chris

I'm with Jul on this. It's hard to rant too hard about a company that's basically giving a sophisticated program like this away for free. I will be purchasing the Pro license as soon as it becomes available for Mac. I already took advantage of one of the holiday 50% off offers on the console. So I wait patiently. In the meantime, I make my living cutting on Avid.


That's exactly the spirit we all need here. Instead of moaning and whining, support the devs by buying a Pro license as soon as it comes available. There is no need to add postings like this to the forum on a regular basis. Editshare is working on it (Windows, Linux and MacOS), but it's a rather small team, so development takes some time. So, instead of giving them the usual "... I demand my free software now ..." - be more patient. It's done when it's done. Just my two cents.

Have a nice day

Dieter
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Last Edit: 5 years, 8 months ago by mediaDS.
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