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TOPIC: Methods carried over from other NLEs and training resources

Methods carried over from other NLEs and training resources 1 month, 1 week ago #187730

  • hugly
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If they like razor blades and scissors to works with because those are very intuitive indeed at a first glance, they will switch to other software. There's plenty of other software with razor blade, for free and paid, for amateur and professional usage, no matter how powerful Lightworks appears to be for others, in particular for us.

Is this a good reason to implement scissors and razor blades as add on, which of course would be possible, I don't know?

Moderated - I've split this thread from one about selecting tracks when using empty cut as razor/blade/split. www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=6&id=187676&Itemid=81#ftop Briandrys
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Last Edit: 1 month ago by briandrys.

Re: An annoying issue: Why doesn't lightworks have the razorblade tool!!! 1 month, 1 week ago #187733

  • jwrl
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Unfortunately all to often the more features you add to a piece of software the less usable it becomes. Useful features can get lost in the added complexity.

Re: An annoying issue: Why doesn't lightworks have the razorblade tool!!! 1 month, 1 week ago #187736

  • hugly
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True this is, indeed.

However, with a look to Resolve which uses a mode switch to display the razor blade, Lightworks could use a modifyer key to change the playhead to a razor blade with thin verical line indicating cut and preview position. With modifyer pressed, moving the mouse could move the razor with valid preview, a click would perform an empty cut. Auto track sync and grouped tracks could define where the cut applies, the red line should indicate it. That wouldn't be thus far away from the existing and within the paradigm. The problem I see, what modifyer to use?
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Last Edit: 1 month, 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: An annoying issue: Why doesn't lightworks have the razorblade tool!!! 1 month, 1 week ago #187747

  • briandrys
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The difference is that the "razor" function for cutting out sections from a clip is a secondary function in Lightworks. It's primary function to break down the clip into sections, so that something (e.g. a speed change) can be applied to those sections. I assume the name implies that it doesn't cut anything from the clip itself.

Using empty cut as a razor is a bonus feature, but it's not the main way of carrying out standard editing procedures.

Re: An annoying issue: Why doesn't lightworks have the razorblade tool!!! 1 month, 1 week ago #187751

  • RWAV
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All of the suggestions from user hugly are redundant in LW - they already exist - depending on action selected the timeline cursor or marks are analaous to a 'razor' or 'blade' and their operation in LW is fully capable of anything a 'razor' or 'blade' equipped NLE does. The LW timeline cursor is a bit like the Doctor's screwdriver - it is what it needs to be according to circumstances but it always looks the same.

Am not an FCP user but if the following (Published Date: Apr 12, 2018) is contemporary FCP then in comparison to the speed, efficiency, versatility and agility of LW it is a dinosaur indeed ---

support.apple.com/kb/PH12549?locale=en_GB&viewlocale=en_US

--- though I have no doubt experienced dinosaur wranglers have every right to love their beast. I do respect that and would not seek to interfere by promoting LW based suggestions for their favourite interface.

Often users with a habit for urging LW to adopt their own relatively inexperienced way of working loudly decry LW's pedigree as a development based on film cutting - well what do they think about this beauty from the FCP documentation in relation to the 'Blade' tool? "The term comes from the film editing process of cutting a filmstrip with a razor and attaching a new “clip” with glue". LW dropped the concept of physically cutting with a razor then scraping back emulsion and using film cement to glue the two ends together before the first version of LW was released. FCP does not seem to have even caught up the fact of the Tape Slicer as the primary work print cutting tool.

The attached shows what they were and how they were used - note the angled magnetic film cutting blade - I guess LW did retain the idea of a sound soft cut from that technology.

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Auto track sync and grouped tracks could define where the cut applies, the red line should indicate it.
Yep, that's about as under-worked or silly a suggestion as is possible. Think about it - one has to group tracks before they will accept an empty cut and/or by default is one has enabled AutoTrackSync then every track will have an empty cut??

Track selection is the only logical determiner of which tracks will have an empty cut inserted - even the FCP documentation seems to suggest that.
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Re: An annoying issue: Why doesn't lightworks have the razorblade tool!!! 1 month, 1 week ago #187752

  • hugly
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All razors I know do what C-key or X-key (without marks) do, they split a segment in two pieces and preserve material. I think that OPs major problem is the range. Delete and Empty Cut apply to all selected tracks, like a chain saw. To hide tracks from cutting, one has to disable tracks, that brings the mouse far away from point of action. A selective razor (or whatever it should be called) keeps the mouse over the point of action. Auto track sync and grouped tracks, together with ALT-key would control the behaviour, basically the same way as it is for trimming. For mouse based editing, promoted in the Quick Start Tutorial and optimized over the years, that could be beneficial.
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Re: An annoying issue: Why doesn't lightworks have the razorblade tool!!! 1 month, 1 week ago #187753

  • hugly
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RWAV wrote:
All of the suggestions from user hugly are redundant in LW - they already exist


Moderator,

I wonder that you are still trying to explain Lightworks to me.
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Last Edit: 1 month, 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: An annoying issue: Why doesn't lightworks have the razorblade tool!!! 1 month, 1 week ago #187760

  • jwrl
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RWAV has around a quarter of a century of professional experience with Lightworks. There are times when I can certainly understand his irritation. And he's right - the function exists and has done for a very long while. We don't need yet another way to place an empty cut in a timeline, whether it is on one or multiple tracks.

In brief: when making an empty cut in Lightworks you first select the track(s) you wish to operate on. My experience has been that when doing that in Avid, FCP, or Premiere you also first select the track(s) you wish to operate on. Then on Lightworks you perform the empty cut. On Avid, FCP, or Premiere you use a similar technique which may have a different name but is functionally identical.

If that had been explained to the OP at the outset two pages of posts could have been avoided.
Last Edit: 1 month, 1 week ago by jwrl.

Re: An annoying issue: Why doesn't lightworks have the razorblade tool!!! 1 month, 1 week ago #187761

  • hugly
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Of course the function exists. That isn't the point.

A lot of experience isn't always a good basis to create new ideas. The experienced tend stick to what they are used to use.

I really don't need the razor blade. I just had an idea how to implement cutting using the mechanisms of Lightworks unjoin assistance without selecting/deselcting tracks and wrote it down. I can imagine that it would fit well in the drag and drop part of Lightworks editing and yes, it would be better than what most others provide currently.
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Re: An annoying issue: Why doesn't lightworks have the razorblade tool!!! 1 month, 1 week ago #187763

  • RWAV
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On a regular basis I encounter decision makers as well as full time working editors. They are universally of the view that LW is very likely fatally slewed towards non-industrial non-professional users and that in any event LW is full of bugs and instability and probably unusable in their context. Much of that attitude is gossip generated by proponents of other systems and based on discussions in this forum.

The misinformation and misunderstanding of some on this forum as well as the constant breathless hunt for and announcement 'bugs' is allowing parties with different interests to drive a wedge between LW and the industrial/professional users base.

In the current matter the features and functions of the razors and blades of other software have always been part of LW. They may be accessed in a different way. It has and does in this conversation seem to me user hugly was not taking that into account in making a list of proposals which would do no more than what is already available - but in a mode according to hugly . In the proposals there is a unnecessary and bewildering deviation from how LW functions to suggest a paradigm where track grouping and Auto-track-sync settings are to become determiners of which tracks will be impacted by an equivalent of a keyboard 'c' command and I guess other editing commands.

And yes, I do wonder why it is that LW still has to be explained to high volume contributors on this forum.

LW is as good as it is because the Product Manages and Developers at LW have historically spent time with editors listened to their comments and then as necessary implemented changes which more often than not have been completely astonishing and taken LW forward in unexpected ways while at the same time addressing the original issue.

Individual users in a community of diverse users are not best placed to propose solutions which would see benefit for the broad spectrum of user types. By all means it is good to highlight operational issues but making what I called an 'under-worked or silly suggestion' is of no help.

EDIT: I do of course thank hugly for his prodigious volume of sheer effort to help users with their operational issues - almost 16,000 posts speak for themselves and all in a relatively short time.
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Last Edit: 1 month, 1 week ago by RWAV.

Re: An annoying issue: Why doesn't lightworks have the razorblade tool!!! 1 month, 1 week ago #187764

  • hugly
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Hm, what's left to say?

A quote from the other thread about drop down menus, scissors and razor blades where the full force of the "experienced" (including myself) hit the new member:

olsenart wrote:
I read in the forum where you say Lightworks has its own logic---phooey! There is no menu bar, which is insane---as almost any program can be figured out by dropdowns we are ALL used to seeing in programs of any type. Also, there should be a way to group or ungroup audio to it's video, and you should be able to scrub frame by frame through any video on the timeline, which you can't do...why not? Editing 101.

Also, I found that grouping video tracks didn't work properly, so that became useless when cutting various tracks for the final edit.

Without a menu bar it was torture getting through the program, and that kind of thinking on your part has lost you one customer...plus your crack about having its own logic---which is senseless.

I love the interface...so that's good, but until these issues are sorted---and by your very nature, I can see they won't be, I won't be purchasing, which is really dumb. It's Premier Pro, then!
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Last Edit: 1 month, 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: An annoying issue: Why doesn't lightworks have the razorblade tool!!! 1 month, 1 week ago #187765

  • jwrl
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You cannot please all people. In trying to do so you will please none.

Re: An annoying issue: Why doesn't lightworks have the razorblade tool!!! 1 month, 1 week ago #187766

  • briandrys
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hugly wrote:
I think that OPs major problem is the range. Delete and Empty Cut apply to all selected tracks, like a chain saw. To hide tracks from cutting, one has to disable tracks, that brings the mouse far away from point of action. A selective razor (or whatever it should be called) keeps the mouse over the point of action.


The only NLE I could see offering an uncomplicated track selection at the point of contact is Vegas, The others seem to involve moving away from the point of contact, at least for linking and unlinking.

I can't recall if part of olsenart's argument was also about not needing to read manuals. There was one or two threads about that.

Re: An annoying issue: Why doesn't lightworks have the razorblade tool!!! 1 month, 1 week ago #187768

  • hugly
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By the way, clicking on a track outside inside the drag region has no function at all, it doesn't even give focus to the recorder. It could be perfectly used to toggle enable tracks (and give focus) without any modifyer. A double click could toggle selection or such. That would reduce mouse movements to enable/disable tracks from track names far left tremendously, not only when cutting.

I think Olsenart and all the other nameless users, who abandon Lightworks after a short test but don't come here to shout it out, do what all of us do when trying new software. They look into top level drop down menus and search available symbols to get an idea what the software does. Without watching the video or reading the Quick Start manual prior to starting the software, all of them are lost in unknown space. That's a pitty because I think, Lightworks is now the easiest NLE to start with and a look into the drop down menus of Media Composer, Premiere, Resolve and others gives some kind of idea, but doesn't help much to get you started. Maybe integrating the video and direct links to documentaion in the GUI somehow could help to keep some of those staying. I don't think that implementing top level menus would be of any benefit due to complexity of functions.
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Last Edit: 1 month, 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: An annoying issue: Why doesn't lightworks have the razorblade tool!!! 1 month, 1 week ago #187770

  • briandrys
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A help button may assist for those stuck. The user guide has pretty good links in it, bringing the two together may be a way of assisting within Lightworks.

EDIT That empty cut is only mentioned in the list of keyboard shortcuts in the User Guide indicates that it's not intended as a primary editing tool in Lightworks. You can use it, but there are other methods.
Last Edit: 1 month, 1 week ago by briandrys.
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