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TOPIC: anamorphic dslr workflow from shooting to editing

Re: anamorphic dslr workflow from shooting to editing 1 year, 2 months ago #178672

  • hugly
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Yes, things are pretty complex.

You're probably aware of it: Video Output Format is only a mask for preview, it does not affect export dimensions or aspect ratio. In other words, if you wish to see what you'll get, set Video Video Output Format to the aspect ratio you wish to export to. When "Letterbox" and/or "Conversion" settings from Project panel come into play things become different (and for my taste too complex). Those settings affect export, i.e Letterbox crops the image in preview and export, but again it won't affect export dimensions. With Zoom on Conversion activated it can occur that DVE doesn't work as expected (difference between preview and export). Without intensive test of your settings you might be surprised by the results.

As roughly mentioned above: My suggestion for a 2.39:1 workflow with anamorphic footage for delivery to streaming services in a cropped format: Use 2K DCI 2.39:1 video output format for preview, stretch the picture horizontally to full frame (with DVE or user effects), export to DCI 2K or DCI 4K (which isn't 2.39:1) to Cineform and crop with ffpmeg to MP4. With non anamorpic footage (no horizontal stretching needed) I'd even export to 16:9 formats (QFHD/QHD) for higher flexibility in frame rates.
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Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by hugly.

Re: anamorphic dslr workflow from shooting to editing 1 year, 2 months ago #178673

  • hugly
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kalimerox,

I just tested my suggestion from above. As far as I can see, for anamorphic footage, instead of a horizontal stretch a vertical squeeze seems to be needed to make things work as expected on export. Furthermore, it seems to me as if it isn't possible to show the full frame without black bars in preview. Sorry I didn't test that before.
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Re: anamorphic dslr workflow from shooting to editing 1 year, 2 months ago #178685

  • hugly
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Update.

I've just tested jwrl's Anamorphic Tools, and the effect does what's needed to see what you get if project output format setting matches export format. No need to touch Letterbox or Conversion settings. Perfect, what else?

The missing link to a cropped anamorphic workflow might be probably only some command lines to scale and crop with ffmpeg. One example:

ffmpeg <input> -vf "scale=-1:-1,crop=iw:iw/2.35" -c:v libx264 -pix_fmt yuv422p -profile:v high422 -preset slow -crf 18 -g 15 -c:a aac -b:a 320k -y <output>.mp4

It assumes that aspect ratio referring to square pixels of the footage is 16:9 and export and project output format is set to 16:9 (e.g. 720p, 1080p, 2160p, QFHD, QHD), and Anamorphic ratio of Anamorphic Tools is set to 2.35:1. Note: Export to 4K DCI (1.85:1) with 16:9 footage would need vertical and horizontal cropping which is of course possible, but doesn't make much sense (in terms of effective resolution). ***

Set preset to "veryfast" for testing purposes.

Edit ***: Just detected, with Zoom of Anamorphic tools set to 4% you can use the command line unchanged with DCI 4K.
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Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by hugly.

Re: anamorphic dslr workflow from shooting to editing 1 year, 2 months ago #178686

  • briandrys
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Shooting with an anamorphic lens, is different to delivering with a scope aspect ratio squeeze on the final digital delivery. Chances are that it will be a letterbox.

simpledcp.com/picking-right-aspect-ratio/

If there is a projection anamorphic lens involved (in order to maximize resolution) it will have a different anamorphic squeeze factor to the camera lens (eg 1.25).

On 35mm film projectors the gate was changed for anamorphic projection to a squarer aspect ratio, so roughly matching that in the scope camera (the projector is usually a bit smaller) - the gate can be changed in the cameras, together with the ground glass used for framing. This allowed the full frame area of the print (& neg) to be used.

Shooting with the standard anamorphic lenses on the camera will give the artifacts that people like and these will be carried over into the letterbox in the digital projector.

Re: anamorphic dslr workflow from shooting to editing 1 year, 2 months ago #178687

  • David Rasberry
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Lightworks exports true widescreen cinema formats without letter boxing if the original material is in those formats, anamorphic or spherically shot.
My Bolex shoots 2k DCI formats, 2048x1152 16:9 Red, 2048x1080p Euro widescreen which is the native cinema projector resolution for 2k.
Lightworks will crop and export any 2k scope cinema format natively without letter boxing if the export codec supports it.
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Re: anamorphic dslr workflow from shooting to editing 1 year, 2 months ago #178688

  • hugly
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David Rasberry wrote:
Lightworks will crop and export any 2k scope cinema format natively without letter boxing if the export codec supports it.

AVC, Cineform codecs and mp4, mov container (and others) would technically support that.

How can 2k scope cinema format (e.g. DCI 2K 2048x858) be exported natively in those formats?
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Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by hugly.

Re: anamorphic dslr workflow from shooting to editing 1 year, 2 months ago #178690

  • khaver
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Aren’t the additional aspect ratios available only in a 24fps project?
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Re: anamorphic dslr workflow from shooting to editing 1 year, 2 months ago #178691

  • hugly
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DCI 2k/4k 2.39:1 are available in project output format of 24fps, but as far as I see, only image sequences can exported in those formats cropped. 2.35:1 cropped as requested by kalimerox isn't available at all.

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Last Edit: 1 year, 2 months ago by hugly.

Re: anamorphic dslr workflow from shooting to editing 1 year, 2 months ago #178692

  • hugly
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I wonder how "Hollywood grade" workflows deal with material captured with anamorphic Panavision lenses on Arri cameras in Arri Raw format. At what state of the workflow is the anamorphic correction done? I can imagine that editors don't see anything else than stretched proxies all day long?
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Re: anamorphic dslr workflow from shooting to editing 1 year, 2 months ago #178745

  • briandrys
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They normally don't edit on the ArrRAW, they use a video codec e.g. ProRes422 for screening on location, H.264 for the director's iPad, and MXF DNxHD36 for editing codec.

The Panavision or similar lenses use a x2 squeeze on the 4x3 setting on the Alexa sensor: 2880 x 2160 active pixels.

16:9 is 2880 x 1620 active pixels.

Re: anamorphic dslr workflow from shooting to editing 1 year, 2 months ago #178746

  • hugly
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I've read that Arri RAW needs debayering with Arri software to be usable. Do you know where the de-squeezing is done in these workflows? Do editors see squeezed or de-squeezed (anamorphic corrected) material?
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Re: anamorphic dslr workflow from shooting to editing 1 year, 2 months ago #178748

  • jwrl
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Editors work with correct aspect ratio material. There'd be wide-spread mutiny if they couldn't.

Re: anamorphic dslr workflow from shooting to editing 1 year, 2 months ago #178749

  • briandrys
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The editors and directors would be viewing desqueezed images, I gather this is done in the camera, because you can record both the ArriRAW and the video ("editing copy") for post at the same time and the Anamorphic de-squeeze license is included with the camera.

The camera viewfinder also desqueezes.

Re: anamorphic dslr workflow from shooting to editing 1 year, 2 months ago #178754

  • hugly
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Thanks. De-squeezning in the camera while recording, I wasn't aware that this exists.

Just found: www.abelcine.com/articles/blog-and-knowledge/tutorials-and-guides/alexas-anamorphic-de-squeeze-explained

I suspect that other camera manufacturers do it the same way?
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Re: anamorphic dslr workflow from shooting to editing 1 year, 2 months ago #178757

  • hugly
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Just a follow on, what I understand is that this kind of de-squeezing is used for monitoring and playback in or out of the camera, but does the camera create editable de-queezed proxies or is this done seperately outside the camera with offloaded (squeezed) raw material with some other kind of software?
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