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TOPIC: VIDEO OVERLAY - ADVICE NEEDED

VIDEO OVERLAY - ADVICE NEEDED 8 years, 10 months ago #10384

  • Devine1
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Hi

I'm about to start a little excercise whereby I'll import a CG *.avi (created in SketchUp) and overlay it over real video footage taken at a specific location. My idea is to place an architectural design into the exact location where it will be eventually constructed.

My understanding and planning is as follows.
1) Frame rates need to match
2) Length of footage needs to be the same
3) Camera angles, position, focal points etc need to be the same
4) Sun angles, shadows need to match
5) I suspect there may be some colour correction required.

What I'm struggling to visualise in my mind is the "variable" speed of real footage compared with the precisely calculated speed of a CG video. What could I do to stop a frame of the first video from progressing ahead of the exact same frame of the second video? (and then repeat that for every frame for the duration of the clip?)

Re: VIDEO OVERLAY - ADVICE NEEDED 8 years, 10 months ago #10385

  • lghtwrks
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don't know your footage, but most likely you'll need some tracking software...

greets
s

Re: VIDEO OVERLAY - ADVICE NEEDED 8 years, 10 months ago #10386

  • Greg_E
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Is this 3d thing going to be moving? If not then you just need a single still frame and frame rates and even image size don't matter as much since you can put them in the DVE to change the size and extend a single frame image over a much longer timeframe.

If there is movement of the object then you will need to match (within reason) the frame rate and video resolution. You will also need a background that you can key out like an alpha channel or a solid colored background for chroma key.

Re: VIDEO OVERLAY - ADVICE NEEDED 8 years, 10 months ago #10389

  • frandesouza
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Hi, devine1

As Greg said, if you' re not planning to make moving scenes, it can be done in LW.

If your footage will have some motion and the object you want to overlay is going to be placed far from the camera, you just need a snapshot of it, and simple 2d tracking in After Effects (download the trial version). At Videocopilot.net there is a good and simple video tutorial on how to do it:
www.videocopilot.net/tutorials/set_extensions/

If you want to do complex 3d compositing, you will need more advanced (and expensive) tools, like After Effects for compositing, 3d Studio or Blender for designing the 3d models and Boujou (extremely expensive) or its free equivalent Voodoo for 3d motion tracking.

Re: VIDEO OVERLAY - ADVICE NEEDED 8 years, 10 months ago #10413

  • Devine1
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Thanks guys for your responses. Yes, the intention is to have moving objects overlayed over the video footage I have taken. Ordinarily I would take still images in a sequential order and overlay the corresponding 3D objects onto those still images and then create a rapid slideshow giving the impression of being a video. I would essentially be setting up individual frames.

However, now I was wanting to have fully intergrated video of the 3D objects onto video footage. Pretty much like CG movies, where a CG clip is overlayed over a real footage.

The tracking suggestion sounds like what I need to research. I was hoping that LW had some feature that might simplify things for me.

Thanks again.

Re: VIDEO OVERLAY - ADVICE NEEDED 8 years, 9 months ago #11750

  • icemclean
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Another solution is to use the Voodoo Camera Tracker (freeware), which will calculate the camera movements and export this as a format that can be read by Blender (freeware), the 3D modelling/video editing software. The Blender camera will then match the movements of your real camera, allowing for easy compositing.

Re: VIDEO OVERLAY - ADVICE NEEDED 8 years, 9 months ago #11752

  • khaver
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icemclean wrote:
Another solution is to use the Voodoo Camera Tracker (freeware), which will calculate the camera movements and export this as a format that can be read by Blender (freeware), the 3D modelling/video editing software. The Blender camera will then match the movements of your real camera, allowing for easy compositing.


Does Blender have the ability to import Sketchup models with textures? If not he will have to export out of Sketchup in a format compatible with Blender. (Beware, blender has a steep learning curve)
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Re: VIDEO OVERLAY - ADVICE NEEDED 8 years, 9 months ago #11755

  • icemclean
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Not directly, but the free version of Sketchup has a native Collada DAE export, which Blender can import. There are also Sketchup plugins available to export DXF, STL, X, OBJ and others. The paid version of Sketchup has native 3DS and OBJ export, which are standard.

Re: VIDEO OVERLAY - ADVICE NEEDED 8 years, 9 months ago #11756

  • khaver
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All this importing, exporting, tracking, compositing, etc. is going to impact your budget (time is money). If you are doing all this for a living, get professional tools (which you may be able to write of tax wise) which will save you much time. Once you get your composited clips exported, then you can use Lightworks for editing if desired.

Devine1, you said you used to composite one frame at a time (the old fashion way), so you must have the time and patience that will allow you to experiment with all the different programs, so have fun.
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Re: VIDEO OVERLAY - ADVICE NEEDED 8 years, 9 months ago #11766

  • Devine1
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Thanks guys.

There's no way I'd do one image at a time - FAR TOO TIME CONSUMING. However I have downloaded Voodoo already and am quite excited that I could export into Blender. I have exported SketchUp into Blender before using the 3DS format but if I remember correctly I had issues with some textures (materials). However I'm quite keen to try again - especially if it will help with my idea. So my workflow will be Voodoo - SketchUp - Blender.

Will have to make this my next experimental project.

Re: VIDEO OVERLAY - ADVICE NEEDED 8 years, 7 months ago #14125

  • Jodan
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Hi, I didn't want to open a new thread although this one is a little older already, but this is quite similar to what I want to do:

I have footage and lay a picture over specific objects in the video - for now I always do this in Vegas, frame by frame with Track Motion. And yes, it is freaking time consuming but as it is not for business, there is no way to buy any more expensive softwares additional to my Sony Vegas.

So, for quite a while I try to move to LW completely and would realy appreciate it if there would be a way to achieve this with LW itself or with free plugins - just without the need to do it frame by frame.
You mentioned Voodoo and Blender, would it be possible to do what I am doing with them and importing that to LW afterwards on a track overlaying the original footage or is it possible to do it even inside LW? Is there a way to import 3d-tracking data into LW and use that information for "automated" track motion?
Wouldn't it be relatively easy to implement the feature of importing 3d-tracking data on one track of LW? This would be an awesome possibility to do this without the need of external solving. Just get the tracking data with Voodoo and import the data to LW, done. I'd love it.

Re: VIDEO OVERLAY - ADVICE NEEDED 8 years, 7 months ago #14126

  • frandesouza
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Hi, Jodan.
Lightworks can't import 3d (or 2d) tracking data, and I doubt it will in the near future.
Think in Lightworks as a video editing tool rather than a VFX and compositing one.
But maybe when it goes Open Source, someone could be interested in develop such tool.
Last Edit: 8 years, 7 months ago by frandesouza.

Re: VIDEO OVERLAY - ADVICE NEEDED 8 years, 7 months ago #14127

  • Jodan
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Hi Fran,

Thanks for the answer... but well, that's really sad. Although I understand that LW is meant for editing - not for composing, I am pretty sure it already has some basic motion features to move video tracks to a specific position of the video screen. Thus, allowing to import tracking data and thus a table of positions can't be that comlicated for the excellent programmers . Also it would increase the usability of LW a LOT with little effort - well, at least I know some people who rather would like to use LW instead of another software for hundredths of dollars that is capable of motion tracking.

Anyways, thanks again for answering, I guess I made my point and can only hope that this very basic while very effective feature will be included soon.

Greetings,
Eric

Re: VIDEO OVERLAY - ADVICE NEEDED 8 years, 7 months ago #14133

  • frandesouza
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I know your feelings, I do some motion graphics and compositing too, but I remember the Jahshaka project, which tried to cover every aspect of video production and ended unfinished, unable to do a single task properly (at least in my experience). As I am mainly a video editor, I prefer a program that rocks on editing tasks, leaving the VFX and compositing to their specific software. (Of course, I would love to have this inside LW, but I think it would demand a lot, in many aspects, and maybe it would sacrifice some LW strenghts).
If you need only 2d tracking, maybe a free solution is Patch Maker:
patchmaker.sourceforge.net/enu/
It is an After Effects plugin, but also a standalone application.
Regards!
Last Edit: 8 years, 7 months ago by frandesouza.

Re: VIDEO OVERLAY - ADVICE NEEDED 8 years, 7 months ago #14172

  • Devine1
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@ Jodan

Haven't had a chance to experiment yet regarding video tracking with LW. The idea in my head would be to use the source material twice.

1) Imported directly into LW and edit as required.
2) Import into Voodoo / Blender so as to create the same camera path & movement of the 3D model that I create. Then when I eventual export a final video of my 3D object and mport into LW, it should be able to overlay the original source material as per step 1.

I hope I'll be able to come back to this experiment.
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