Welcome, Guest
Username Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Alternative to Console, a different approach

Re: Alternative to Console, a different approach 9 years, 5 months ago #7235

  • nepule
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 70
  • 9 years, 5 months ago
Well, not wishing to pour cold water on your project, your link to X-Keys Jog and Shuttle Pro for the money would seem to fit the bill. I shall be ordering one of these and will give it a good test and report back as to it's functionality, and ergonomics. At this price it would be difficult to compete with a new design etc. Just my 2 cents
The topic has been locked.

Re: Alternative to Console, a different approach 9 years, 5 months ago #7247

  • Greg_E
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 2218
  • 9 years, 5 months ago
The Shuttle Pro has limited buttons so the number of functions that you can get to easily is smaller. I also don't like how the buttons are arranged around the controller, the four below the shuttle knob are not the easiest to press so it slows you down. It was designed to be portable and that it does well but it also makes it less ergonomic to use. It will require moving your hand from shuttle to mouse often, and your other hand on the keyboard. I think for this type of workflow you would be better off with the ShuttleXpress or one of the Bella version 3 keyboards that has the jog/shuttle built in.
Last Edit: 9 years, 5 months ago by Greg_E.
The topic has been locked.

Re: Alternative to Console, a different approach 9 years, 5 months ago #7364

  • Greg_E
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 2218
  • 9 years, 5 months ago
Not that I expect an answer, but I'll ask anyway.

Back lights for the keys or no back lights. I was originally thinking to have white back light for the main function and have it switch to a different color when the shift key is pressed.
The topic has been locked.

Re: Alternative to Console, a different approach 9 years, 5 months ago #7368

  • Scott Hill
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Expert Boarder
  • Posts: 116
  • 9 years, 5 months ago
Backlighting would be a nice addition as I usually edit in a darkened room.

Instead of different colors (or in addition to), it would be helpful to adjust the brightness and also have the ability to turn the backlighting off, if desired.
The topic has been locked.

Re: Alternative to Console, a different approach 9 years, 5 months ago #7372

  • Greg_E
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 2218
  • 9 years, 5 months ago
Still working on dimming or not. Lights on or off is easy and may be as simple as removing the power supply. I'm thinking of two different modes.

Mode one is powered by USB and no lights possible.

Mode two is powered by external power and has lights.

It would be simple to put in a switch to turn the lights off in mode two.
Last Edit: 9 years, 5 months ago by Greg_E.
The topic has been locked.

Re: Alternative to Console, a different approach 9 years, 4 months ago #7929

  • Greg_E
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 2218
  • 9 years, 4 months ago
The key caps I can get for the switches that don't cost a fortune are not going to work with a back light, so that idea went out. Cuts the cost but would have been nice to have backlit keys, also means it should be able to be completely USB powered.

Turns out it is a little cramped but I can't get any other chassis unless it is huge and expensive.

This image is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.
The topic has been locked.

Re: Alternative to Console, a different approach 9 years, 4 months ago #7956

  • arniepix
  • Moderator
    Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1674
  • 9 years, 4 months ago
Greg_E wrote:
The key caps I can get for the switches that don't cost a fortune are not going to work with a back light, so that idea went out. Cuts the cost but would have been nice to have backlit keys, also means it should be able to be completely USB powered.


While backlighting would be nice, a user can always put a little gooseneck LED over the top of the console for use in darkened rooms.

Looks promising, keep it up!
I work in Manhattan, USA, but at night I cross the waters to sleep in Brooklyn, USA.

Also, post production is not an afterthought!
The topic has been locked.

Re: Alternative to Console, a different approach 9 years, 4 months ago #7960

  • Greg_E
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 2218
  • 9 years, 4 months ago
If it goes farther than one or two units, I was thinking of putting the proper connectors on the box and a place to plug in a 12 volt supply for the standard flexible lights.

If it goes a lot farther then I'll investigate a larger box and use larger illuminated switches. This probably won't happen until after I learn to program my own controller which should offset the cost enough to use more expensive illuminated switches.

And now that I have the box I can finish the circuit boards for the switches, which only leaves the latching circuit for the Shift Lock key which needs parts to experiment. Then send all the board designs out for manufacture which will add another couple weeks while I machine the aluminum.
The topic has been locked.

Re: Alternative to Console, a different approach 9 years, 4 months ago #7962

  • khaver
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 3500
  • 9 years, 4 months ago
The mockup looks good but I don't like that back row of keys set 90 degrees from the control surface. Looks awkward to press (you have to use the tips of your fingers and anyone with long nails won't like it). Maybe these should just be set at a slight angle to the main surface or just make the main surface larger.
Work Comp: Retired!
Home Comp: Newer! Bigger! Faster!
Send me a tip: paypal.me/4khaver
The topic has been locked.

Re: Alternative to Console, a different approach 9 years, 4 months ago #7964

  • Greg_E
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 2218
  • 9 years, 4 months ago
It's not 90 but looks like that in the picture, it is closer to 75 degrees from the main surface, still a little steep though. It really needs a custom designed box, this is the best thing I can find that is ready built so it will need to serve until the price goes up to cover a custom box (not cheap in low volume). When it gets farther along I'll contact the box manufacturer and see if they would be interested in making my changes and adding to their regular line, this would keep the costs down. It needs to be at least 2 inches wider, another inch to two inches longer in the main panel and really needs about another inch tall on the bridge section. All of this would allow larger switches with back light and of course larger text on the key caps, room to rest your wrist, room for an LCD for programming, and room for a better trackball. Overall this feels cramped and I may need to remove the trackball to spread things out. It would no longer have a bridge if I do this since all the keys would fit on the main panel. But there is still so much mouse work in most NLE that it kind of requires the trackball.

I'll have a better feel when I finalize the design and cut out the metal and get the shuttle knob and trackball mounted. I'm still trying to decide how far the switch caps will stick out, I would like them to go flush when they are pushed, but then it is hard to change the legend below the clear cap. If they stick out to where it will be easy to change the legend then they could hang up on the side of the switch in the metal.

In the next design I'm considering going with no buttons and using capacitive sensors for the buttons and shuttle, jog will still be a wheel. Not much thought has gone into this option because I'm not sure it would work well. Would look really cool but I think tactile feedback would be gone which would lead to users getting mad. The shuttle control may still end up being a fixed knob that you drag your finger around with no touch being stop (once only). This type of touch is built onto the processor that I want to use, it's on the development board that I'll be using for learning and prototype. Still just a though in my head and it may not be functional. Touch is one of the lessons for this system so I'll have a better idea when I get going on this system.

The good thing about this entire box is that I should be able to run wires between this box and the development board so that I can use parts of the real device in the testing and get a real device working with the development board.

Also eventually I want to be able to program every switch and shuttle and jog position directly from the control panel so it will need need a computer driver or application. This gives wider access to users. SO I will put in a small LCD somewhere to display this info. I also want to have areas for preprogrammed set up storage so you can just recall the set up for whichever application you are using. There won't be an auto selection like the ShuttlePro, but mine won't forget where everything is when you move to a different computer.
The topic has been locked.

Re: Alternative to Console, a different approach 9 years, 4 months ago #7967

  • khaver
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 3500
  • 9 years, 4 months ago
The Lightworks interface uses a lot of right and left mouse button clicks along with right hold-drag-left click etc. I don't use a trackball but won't something like that be difficult with a trackball?

How about a foot pedal for the shift key?
Work Comp: Retired!
Home Comp: Newer! Bigger! Faster!
Send me a tip: paypal.me/4khaver
Last Edit: 9 years, 4 months ago by khaver.
The topic has been locked.

Re: Alternative to Console, a different approach 9 years, 4 months ago #7971

  • Greg_E
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 2218
  • 9 years, 4 months ago
Yes this trackball may prove to be a problem and I'm kind of considering putting the buttons on the side of the box so that you use the ball with your thumb and get the buttons with one or two fingers.

That said, with enough of the keyboard entries mapped there is less mouse work that needs to be done, but still enough that I have to think about it before I cut the panel. It might still be a better idea to glue one of my Logitech trackballs to the panel and run the cable to a hub, it would also be cheaper in the long run. Again something I am still considering and some of this needs to be cut and mounted before I can decide if I hate it. If I hate it I can guarantee that most other people will hate it too and that part will get changed or the project will end while I search for a better solution.

An optional foot pedal could be done easily, but I would make it optional and keep all the keys on the panel too.
Last Edit: 9 years, 4 months ago by Greg_E.
The topic has been locked.

Re: Alternative to Console, a different approach 9 years, 4 months ago #7974

  • khaver
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 3500
  • 9 years, 4 months ago
Ergonomics is paramount. Sitting at the editing console all day can play havoc with your wrists if things aren't laid out in a natural way with the least movement possible. I like the idea of a trackball but using it for dragging and clicking with both buttons needs to be worked out. I wonder how a joystick would work? Lots of buttons and triggers but I hate the lack of responsiveness of most joystick as mouse pointers. It's hard to accurately control the cursor. Just thinking out loud.
Work Comp: Retired!
Home Comp: Newer! Bigger! Faster!
Send me a tip: paypal.me/4khaver
The topic has been locked.

Re: Alternative to Console, a different approach 9 years, 4 months ago #7977

  • Greg_E
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 2218
  • 9 years, 4 months ago
An analog joystick could be made to work, but they usually get a little twitchy because they are an absolute pointer, using them in relative mode is normally not very intuitive since they need to makes counts based on the amount of input. I also though for a short time about a track pad or some other finger based pointer, again single handed drag and drop and a lot of other click based navigation gets kind of ugly so I stopped.

If the box was big enough, then a small graphics tablet might be interesting, but the smallest tablet that is worth using is 4x6 inches and that would be almost all of the lower panel.

One of the goals with this was to make a control panel that could be basically a one handed device, leaving your other hand free to do something like move audio faders (or hold your coffee). There are plenty of two handled controls which start as a regular keyboard, and there is a Bella keyboard that has a jog/shuttle on it. But the keys are so spread out that you spend a lot of time moving across the keyboard, or using two hands and moving one to the mouse when needed. This is why the Shuttle devices are lacking, not enough keys to cover the important things (at least not for Lightworks).
The topic has been locked.

Re: Alternative to Console, a different approach 9 years, 4 months ago #8994

  • Greg_E
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 2218
  • 9 years, 4 months ago
The circuit boards should go out for manufacture this week, might be able to put things together in another two weeks.
The topic has been locked.
Time to create page: 0.39 seconds
Scroll To Top