Welcome, Guest
Username Password: Remember me
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC: Second layer on Shuttle Pro ?

Second layer on Shuttle Pro ? 8 years, 3 months ago #38366

  • frandesouza
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 673
  • 8 years, 3 months ago
I just got a Shuttle Pro 2, still trying different settings until I decide my final layout. Since I was always a minimalist, I think I can live with the 15 buttons and the jog/shuttle wheel. But I read about the possibility of a second layer of functions assigned to the device, although I have not seen a description of how to accomplish that. Therefore I would like to ask those who are working in this way, how to map a second layer of functions to the device. It is possible to use one of the shuttle buttons as a modifier key or that is achieved in combination with the keyboard?

BTW, I'm enjoying the experience so far

Re: Second layer on Shuttle Pro ? 8 years, 3 months ago #38367

  • Craig Marshall
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1986
  • 8 years, 3 months ago
The Shuttle is a wonderful tool. Like you, I've never bothered with the second layer (I think 'brdloush' is the one who's mapped them in using the keyboard shift keys?) After several re-arrangements, I'm really happy with the following so here is my current shuttle layout...

PS: I now use it intuitively with the left hand and simply can't live without my LW 'Preview' command. What a great little feature!
Custom Haswell z87 i7 3.9Ghz 4770
System SSD, 16TB Internal RAID 0, Cache SSD
16GB DDR3, Thunderbolt, Nvidia GTX 970 G1 Maxwell GPU
Lightworks Pro with DNxHD license
Resolve 15 with OxygenTec ProPanel
X-Keys Pro 68 key USB Jog/Shuttle controller
2 x 24" HD GUI, 24" 10bit Rec.709 IPS Monitor
12G Decklink 4K SDI Pro>HD-Link Pro>Display Port
Sony 55" X9005B 4K Client Monitor
Sony Super 35 HD camera with Atomos ProRes Recorder
4x4" matte box/follow focus. Zeiss 'Contax' FF primes with Metabones 'Speed Booster'
Rode NTG-3/I-Rig XLR Phantom preamp
HDvideo4K.com
Last Edit: 8 years, 3 months ago by Craig Marshall.

Re: Second layer on Shuttle Pro ? 8 years, 3 months ago #38374

  • brdloush
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 995
  • 8 years, 3 months ago
@frandesouza: can you please describe how you use the "preview" command? I don't know this one..

@ozsteam: here's a document describing my current layout .

Basically I was happy with my standard mapping and thouht "Hey, what about mapping my shift+ShuttlePro_Button" combinations that way, that the "shifted" keypress will be used as more precise of "non-shifted" action. Therefore: shift+jog ring = 1 frame instead of jog, shift+wheel = play at 1/2 speed instead of 1,2,4,.. speed..

My current layout definitely needs more improvements (eg. I really don't understand why I have "unmark" action being mapped on 2 different keys , but so far I like it a lot.

Re: Second layer on Shuttle Pro ? 8 years, 3 months ago #38375

  • Craig Marshall
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1986
  • 8 years, 3 months ago
Hi Brdloush, I'm the preview key 'junkie'. It should be your 'P' key depending on which LW keyboard profile you are using. (mine's based on Avid preferences, if I remember correctly)

Here's the theory; back in my Betacam SP videotape editing days, (I know, those dim, dark dinosaur days) a 'Preview' was nearly always performed prior to committing to the edit. On hitting the Edit Controller's 'Preview' button, each VTR in your edit suite (a Recorder plus 2 or more Players) would automatically 'pre-roll' some 3 to 5 seconds back then Stop, then Play (till 'sync' was achieved) through and past your edit point, then 'Park' on idle, ready for the next command.

The idea was to give you and/or your client a 'preview' of the scene timing prior to committing to the edit. In many multi VTR edit suites (with say, half a million dollars of hardware) syncronising those electro-mechanical dinosaurs was all important and sometimes problematic as occasionally, a frame was destined NOT to cut up against some other frame. (often, just the one you want!)

In Lightworks, the 'Preview' key performs a similar function: your 'player head' pre-rolls, plays the cut or transition, then 'Parks' ready for the Edit. You get to 'Preview' the edit timing with the simple press of just one button instead of several. Remember, each frame of your movie is either 'in' or 'out' of the final edit.

PS: Hmm, I wonder if the action/timing of the Lightworks 'Preview' function can be adjusted?
Custom Haswell z87 i7 3.9Ghz 4770
System SSD, 16TB Internal RAID 0, Cache SSD
16GB DDR3, Thunderbolt, Nvidia GTX 970 G1 Maxwell GPU
Lightworks Pro with DNxHD license
Resolve 15 with OxygenTec ProPanel
X-Keys Pro 68 key USB Jog/Shuttle controller
2 x 24" HD GUI, 24" 10bit Rec.709 IPS Monitor
12G Decklink 4K SDI Pro>HD-Link Pro>Display Port
Sony 55" X9005B 4K Client Monitor
Sony Super 35 HD camera with Atomos ProRes Recorder
4x4" matte box/follow focus. Zeiss 'Contax' FF primes with Metabones 'Speed Booster'
Rode NTG-3/I-Rig XLR Phantom preamp
HDvideo4K.com
Last Edit: 8 years, 3 months ago by Craig Marshall.

Re: Second layer on Shuttle Pro ? 8 years, 3 months ago #38376

  • brdloush
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 995
  • 8 years, 3 months ago
I've tried it and it seems quite handy. No need to rewind back using jog wheel and THEN play. I also like that when I stop the preview, the playhead will jump back to when it was before I pressed preview.

It'd be great to define the jump-back interval, as 3seconds (which seems to be default) is a bit too much for me.

I'd also love a loop-preview function: mark&park some section of your edit and then press some key to loop-preview such region. Is that possible somehow? It seems that I can do something simillar manually by using this Preview function you mentioned - when my playhead reaches the original location, I simply press Preview once again.. But this mean I'll be previewing interval of <playhead-3s; playhead>
Last Edit: 8 years, 3 months ago by brdloush.

Re: Second layer on Shuttle Pro ? 8 years, 3 months ago #38377

  • brdloush
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 995
  • 8 years, 3 months ago
btw. regarding "Betacam SP videotape editing days, (I know, those dim, dark dinosaur days)"..

At the university, we were trained on videotape editing suite as well. And that was not too long ago - I think some 7-8 years ago

I think that even today, it still makes sense to learn the basics of editing on videotape editing machines. But maybe I'm just a dinousaur as well

Re: Second layer on Shuttle Pro ? 8 years, 3 months ago #38382

  • Craig Marshall
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1986
  • 8 years, 3 months ago
Yes, your loop-preview idea has merit. I quite like the three second pre-roll time but I can see where that is too long for some applications so an 'adjustable' pre-roll time would be great. (1/3/5 seconds as you could do with the Sony 'BVE' series of edit controllers) I'll bet the developers are able to edit the 'preview' commands. A 'feature request' perhaps?

I agree that tape (and of course celluloid film) editing taught good discipline. Looking back on all those years I spent learning to splice Super 8, then edit U-matic video tape and finally mix live TV News, cut TV Commercials, Programmes and Documentaries on 1" VTRs and Betacam SP suites taught me great discipline and respect, especially for timecode. Expensive hardware forced you to work efficiently, especially if you were paying the bills but with today's relatively low cost production equipment, it's easy to cut corners. This can come back to 'bite you on the bum' as fellow Aussie and Forum member 'JWRL' has previously hinted. Poorly disciplined video practitioners can stumble when suddenly thrust into the bigtime due to lack of a basic understanding.
Custom Haswell z87 i7 3.9Ghz 4770
System SSD, 16TB Internal RAID 0, Cache SSD
16GB DDR3, Thunderbolt, Nvidia GTX 970 G1 Maxwell GPU
Lightworks Pro with DNxHD license
Resolve 15 with OxygenTec ProPanel
X-Keys Pro 68 key USB Jog/Shuttle controller
2 x 24" HD GUI, 24" 10bit Rec.709 IPS Monitor
12G Decklink 4K SDI Pro>HD-Link Pro>Display Port
Sony 55" X9005B 4K Client Monitor
Sony Super 35 HD camera with Atomos ProRes Recorder
4x4" matte box/follow focus. Zeiss 'Contax' FF primes with Metabones 'Speed Booster'
Rode NTG-3/I-Rig XLR Phantom preamp
HDvideo4K.com
Last Edit: 8 years, 3 months ago by Craig Marshall.

Re: Second layer on Shuttle Pro ? 8 years, 3 months ago #38383

  • Schloime
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 512
  • 8 years, 3 months ago
@frandesouza: I'm working with two layers. I have a Logitech mouse with two additional buttons and on those I mapped "SHIFT" and "CTRL". Then you need to do a bit of remapping of the LW keys and now I have two layers without needing the keyboard (except for numerical inputs or renaming of bins etc).
So for example I have on the upper four buttons "replace, insert, delete and remove" and with SHIFT I get "trim last out, trim in, trim out, trim next in".
Tech: AMD FX 6100, 16 GB RAM, GeForce GTX780, Win10 64, Panasonic AG-AC90, Panasonic HC-X929, Canon EOS 600D (T3i), Contour Shuttle, BMD Intensity Pro, Zoom H2N, Tascam DR44WL, DVR Dongle
Last Edit: 8 years, 3 months ago by Schloime.

Re: Second layer on Shuttle Pro ? 8 years, 3 months ago #38386

  • ABCRONNIE
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 936
  • 8 years, 3 months ago
ozsteam wrote:
I agree that tape (and of course celluloid film) editing taught good discipline. Looking back on all those years I spent learning to splice Super 8, then edit U-matic video tape and finally mix live TV News, cut TV Commercials, Programmes and Documentaries on 1" VTRs and Betacam SP suites taught me great discipline and respect, especially for timecode.


Hi Ozsteam

Oh....but how I miss those days of non pal paired edits and incomplete 8 field sequences and the resulting horizontal shifts....not....

Regards

Ronnie
SYSTEM 1
Alienware M17X R3 Laptop Core i7 2760QM CPU
@ 2.4 Ghz.
8 Gig Ram 1600 DDR3
NVidia 560 M Graphics.
1.5 TB 7200rpm Seagate HDD. Raid 0
17" Full 1920x1080 LED Display
2 x USB 3, 1 x ESata, 1 Gig Ethernet, HDMI 1.4 O/P 2 x USB 2.0 Ports.
Display Port, Blu-Ray / DVD Recorder
Windows 7 64 Bit Pro SP 1. LightworksV11.5.1 Pro. 32bit & 64bit.
SYSTEM 2
Apple MACBook PRO Mid 2012 15inch
Software OS Software OS X 10.8.5
Graphics NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M 1024 MB
Memory 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
Processor 2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
6TB Thunderbolt Raid 5 Media Drive. 750GB Sys Drive

Re: Second layer on Shuttle Pro ? 8 years, 3 months ago #38398

  • frandesouza
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 673
  • 8 years, 3 months ago
Thank you all for your comments!
In fact, I think I'll end up choosing to work with only one layer of functions, but still, when I've decided my final layout, I'll try to set up a second layer with other commands, and see how it goes.

@ ozsteam
@ brdloush
Thanks for the layouts!

@ Schloime
thanks for the tip on the mouse!

BTW, the Preview is one of my best friends too! It's one of the first commands that I have configured. Another command I use often is "clipboard insert", and of course mark in, delete, remove, replace, insert, jump left, jump right...

Thanks again for your answers
Cheers
Fran

Re: Second layer on Shuttle Pro ? 8 years, 3 months ago #38411

  • Craig Marshall
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1986
  • 8 years, 3 months ago
ABCRonnie wrote:
Oh....but how I miss those days of non pal paired edits and incomplete 8 field sequences and the resulting horizontal shifts....not....


When I eventually built my own 4 VTR SP suite, I ran everything YUV component, even the waveform monitor & vectorscope. I remember the Shotlister guys down in Sydney exclaiming: "Everything YUV? Wow, you'll be able to switch to '2 Field' and the VTRs will cut any frame to any frame!"

Some time later, after selling my modern production facility and returning to Australia, I was offered an editing position at a Sydney suite which had been once, state of the art. Unfortunately, I was faced with three 1" VTRs, each with a 'parallel' interface to the edit controller. Not even 9 pin RS422! Not only would they rarely cut to the frame you wanted but they needed a ten second pre-roll to syncronise! Suffice to say, that facility found it hard to hire editors. I left too.
Custom Haswell z87 i7 3.9Ghz 4770
System SSD, 16TB Internal RAID 0, Cache SSD
16GB DDR3, Thunderbolt, Nvidia GTX 970 G1 Maxwell GPU
Lightworks Pro with DNxHD license
Resolve 15 with OxygenTec ProPanel
X-Keys Pro 68 key USB Jog/Shuttle controller
2 x 24" HD GUI, 24" 10bit Rec.709 IPS Monitor
12G Decklink 4K SDI Pro>HD-Link Pro>Display Port
Sony 55" X9005B 4K Client Monitor
Sony Super 35 HD camera with Atomos ProRes Recorder
4x4" matte box/follow focus. Zeiss 'Contax' FF primes with Metabones 'Speed Booster'
Rode NTG-3/I-Rig XLR Phantom preamp
HDvideo4K.com
Last Edit: 8 years, 3 months ago by Craig Marshall.

Re: Second layer on Shuttle Pro ? 8 years, 3 months ago #38442

  • Greg_E
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 2218
  • 8 years, 3 months ago
There seems to be a little confusion... The Shuttle Pro offers 2 distinct levels, but you are either in level one or level two. The only indication of which level you are in is the color of the icon on the taskbar (which may be hidden). I found it to be a bad workflow.

On the other side you have the normal shift, control, alt key modifiers on the keyboard. These also modify the buttons on the Shuttle devices (as well as all other keyboard keys adding to the shuttle keys). I found this to be a much better way to work. Saddly you can not use more than a single button at a time on the Shuttle devices or I would map some of those buttons to modifier keys.

What I would suggest for mapping the buttons would be the most commonly used functions for the base (non-modified) level, then use shift or control to program the inverse function into Lightworks. There are a few exceptions to this rule like insert next - (shifted) insert, same for replace next/replace. I use a key for in point, a key for out point. The shift of these is mark all and unmark since I find I use mark all and unmark far less than in and out.

Re: Second layer on Shuttle Pro ? 8 years, 2 months ago #38590

  • sennahojx
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 870
  • 8 years, 2 months ago
A bit off topic, but anyway: Is it possible to make a second layer on a regular simple mouse? I'm using a Microsoft wireless mobile mouse 1000.
Windows 10 Home 64bit, Intel Core i7 3770K @3,5GHz, 8GB Corsair Vengeance 1600Mhz DDR3 RAM, ASUS GeForce GTX 650 Ti, MSI Z77A-G43, Seagate Barracuda 500GB C-drive, Seagate Barracuda 2TB D-drive.
johannesgustavsson.com
youtube.com/c/JohannesGustavssons
My Lightworks tutorials

Re: Second layer on Shuttle Pro ? 8 years, 2 months ago #38592

  • Schloime
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 512
  • 8 years, 2 months ago
Not that I know of... If there is a good config software included (logitech has it) then you can make some buttons application sensitive. But the good old left and right button will stay the same most of the time.
Tech: AMD FX 6100, 16 GB RAM, GeForce GTX780, Win10 64, Panasonic AG-AC90, Panasonic HC-X929, Canon EOS 600D (T3i), Contour Shuttle, BMD Intensity Pro, Zoom H2N, Tascam DR44WL, DVR Dongle

Re: Second layer on Shuttle Pro ? 8 years, 2 months ago #38593

  • brdloush
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 995
  • 8 years, 2 months ago
Sennahojx: with your PC's configuration, you deserve full experience of Shuttle Pro!

..although I also fully understand that your budget can now be pretty low these days - after purchasing such a powerful PC

But back to the question. Emulating buttons with mouse.. hmm.. probably, why not. If the mouse has a lot of buttons and you have good SW, it should be possible. One problem may be the fact that mouse is.. well.. not very stable. It's designed to be moved accross the table, right?

But I don't think there's any way of imitating the real jog-wheel ang jog-ring, with all the force-feedback etc. I find the real thing VERY addictive, quick and efficient. I just don't see how the same feeling can be emulated even on device such as tablet.

Just try the real thing and you'll probably understand what I mean.. I've become a jog-wheel and jog-ring junkie! It's waaaay better than mouse.
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
Time to create page: 0.67 seconds
Scroll To Top