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TOPIC: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements

Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225108

  • ArteD
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jonathan.bondu wrote:
ArteD wrote:
A very tall order.

There are so many factors that make the current Console basically perfect.

I think the main if not only reason for a replacement is to bring fabrication costs down. So a lot of thought will have to go into it.

My spontaneous suggestion would be basically to keep the same console and just replace the guts with more modern electronics, which may make it cheaper to produce. But the mechanical precision, materials and the like are a big part of the high cost as well as the performance.

There is a reason the Shuttle Pro doesn't hold a candle to the Console even if it's some 25 years younger. But whatever the replacement is, I agree it should never be based on a competitor's product.


what would you think of something with the technology of the loupedeck CT with it's screen button but with the layout of the console (V1 or V2) keeping the iconic jog shuttle lever system. and I think that if such a device would one the one side be compatible with the traditional Lightworks driver but on the other side have some sort of midi translator program, so that people could find creative unse on other program for it. then it would just augment the perceived value of the product... I know people like Vidéo-jockey or people on some fringes of video like VR who like to use those things, and if the tool is still primarily made in ergonomics for lightworks, but has a great touch feeling and the ability to be used elsewhere. I think it's all the better. maybe working with some third party manufacturer could be an option to save costs and have a great tool.


Any flat surfaced controller will not be able to match the console. It's not only a matter of having buttons and the functions.

The console is perfect because of the combination of the correct shape, correct size, correct layout, correct tactile feel and correct mechanics, plus the software being designed around it.

A replacement is a hard task indeed.
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Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225112

ArteD wrote:
jonathan.bondu wrote:
ArteD wrote:
A very tall order.

There are so many factors that make the current Console basically perfect.

I think the main if not only reason for a replacement is to bring fabrication costs down. So a lot of thought will have to go into it.

My spontaneous suggestion would be basically to keep the same console and just replace the guts with more modern electronics, which may make it cheaper to produce. But the mechanical precision, materials and the like are a big part of the high cost as well as the performance.

There is a reason the Shuttle Pro doesn't hold a candle to the Console even if it's some 25 years younger. But whatever the replacement is, I agree it should never be based on a competitor's product.


what would you think of something with the technology of the loupedeck CT with it's screen button but with the layout of the console (V1 or V2) keeping the iconic jog shuttle lever system. and I think that if such a device would one the one side be compatible with the traditional Lightworks driver but on the other side have some sort of midi translator program, so that people could find creative unse on other program for it. then it would just augment the perceived value of the product... I know people like Vidéo-jockey or people on some fringes of video like VR who like to use those things, and if the tool is still primarily made in ergonomics for lightworks, but has a great touch feeling and the ability to be used elsewhere. I think it's all the better. maybe working with some third party manufacturer could be an option to save costs and have a great tool.


Any flat surfaced controller will not be able to match the console. It's not only a matter of having buttons and the functions.

The console is perfect because of the combination of the correct shape, correct size, correct layout, correct tactile feel and correct mechanics, plus the software being designed around it.

A replacement is a hard task indeed.
It's my point : keep all the things that work in terms of shape layout size and feel, and the tight lightworks relationship. (keep it design primarily for Lightworks)
add some nifty screens under the button (like what you see on the loupedeck CT or the elgato streamdeck) So the user buttons always tells you what functions are assigned and adapt there display because from what I saw on the tutorials apparently there are a bunch of user assigned button and modifier that allow buttons to change function contextually. so having a display would be convenient.
With my idea of a V3 of the console you would not be able to tell the difference blindfolded ...

and on top of that you add a midi translator as an add on driver, that allows the console to interact with other stuff. and people to use it on other software.
the idea is to decreas the cost and increase the value (you could still shove a one year license of lightworks and promotionnal material with everything to push people to try lightworks)
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Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225121

  • jwrl
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jonathan.bondu wrote:
With my idea of a V3 of the console you would not be able to tell the difference blindfolded

You could only make that comment if you have never used one. The keys used are Cherry which have a characteristic "touch", but more importantly, the shuttle control has a feedback characteristic that feels as if you are actually controlling a transport. I'm not saying that you couldn't create a Mk III console using today's technology at a lower price than the Mk II, but lightweight keys and/or touchscreen technology would definitely not be it.

Technologies that don't provide tactile feedback can contribute to RSI. That's less likely to be a problem if you're using the controller as a hobbyist would, but if you're using it every working hour of every working day it will quickly become an issue. That issue is in part the reason that the console is built at the angle that it is. The average user's wrist isn't unduly strained when using it.

The existing console could have its electronics replaced with a Raspberry PI or Arduino and you would never know that it had happened, but the fabrication costs would still be pretty much the same so there wouldn't be a significant difference in price. I have had a check on line for rotary encoders that provide controllable tactile feedback - they're not that thick on the ground! Fortunately Cherry keys still are.

I'm not saying that it's impossible, but it definitely is going to be a challenge. And quite frankly, I couldn't give a toss if users of other software couldn't also use it. It's a tool designed for a specific purpose. You don't build a house with a Swiss army knife.
Last Edit: 5 months, 1 week ago by jwrl.

Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225124

  • briandrys
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I now see why the console was so expensive, it's a limited production run with the mechanics providing progressive feedback. It's the mechanics that make cinema lenses so expensive, if you exclude the cheap ones like Rokinon, they sort of begin at the price of the console and go up to the cost of a BMW.

Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225134

jwrl wrote:
jonathan.bondu wrote:
With my idea of a V3 of the console you would not be able to tell the difference blindfolded

You could only make that comment if you have never used one. The keys used are Cherry which have a characteristic "touch", but more importantly, the shuttle control has a feedback characteristic that feels as if you are actually controlling a transport. I'm not saying that you couldn't create a Mk III console using today's technology at a lower price than the Mk II, but lightweight keys and/or touchscreen technology would definitely not be it.

Technologies that don't provide tactile feedback can contribute to RSI. That's less likely to be a problem if you're using the controller as a hobbyist would, but if you're using it every working hour of every working day it will quickly become an issue. That issue is in part the reason that the console is built at the angle that it is. The average user's wrist isn't unduly strained when using it.

The existing console could have its electronics replaced with a Cherry PI or Arduino and you would never know that it had happened, but the fabrication costs would still be pretty much the same so there wouldn't be a significant difference in price. I have had a check on line for rotary encoders that provide controllable tactile feedback - they're not that thick on the ground! Fortunately Cherry keys still are.

I'm not saying that it's impossible, but it definitely is going to be a challenge. And quite frankly, I couldn't give a toss if users of other software couldn't also use it. It's a tool designed for a specific purpose. You don't build a house with a Swiss army knife.

I think you have misunderstood. Or you don't know what references I'm talking about. The streamdeck for instance is a box, with physical buttons that have tiny lcd or oled screens instead of prints, you also have for instance the Optimus Keyboard that does a similar thing. And I grew up with a grand piano, so I know what physicality and touch mean. and I would never want any sort of touchscreen.
I just see that you can replace keyprints with tiny screens.
so you take the console mkII, exactly as it is. but you make the keycaps transparent, and you stick a tiny screen inside. that means that instead of printing the icons on plastic, you make them appear on those tiny screens... it would not change anything to the feeling of the controller and it's keys. and obviously the jog shuttle levers and wheel would stay, as big and physical as they are... and I understand that the physical feeling and feedback of the controller is important and I agree.
and also on the software side, you could add a external program, that would convert the console input in midi. it would not have anything to do with lightworks as a software and would not change the way the console interacts with lightworks. It would just be a compatibility interface for people with ideas.

and and my idea I'm not thinking about prices, it's just ideas of taking what exist as the lightworks console in all it's greatness and zero compromises, and just adding a few extras : software control key display and ability to control other stuff...
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Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225136

  • RWAV
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This might help.

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Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225139

beautiful. I'd love to understand more closely how the lever system works with its spring system. it looks so cool !
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Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225140

  • jwrl
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So you're saying that you want to keep the layout and feel, but just add backlit LED displays. OK.

The look and feel of the console is the most expensive part, involving machined metal and plastic components that are hand assembled. Hand assembly is necessary because of the limited runs required. It may be possible to reduce assembly costs to a degree by using 3D printing techniques but that could also reduce the reliability, since parts produced that way can be fragile. That may still be a trade off worth pursuing.

However you cut it the significant cost disadvantage is more due to the fabrication process, and less due to the electronics used. Replacing the electronics in a Mk II entirely with a single chip microcomputer is unlikely to have a huge impact on cost. Adding to the fabrication costs by replacing screened or moulded labelling with additional display components certainly will.
Last Edit: 5 months, 1 week ago by jwrl.

Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225142

yeah, I'm not the one who talked about making it cheaper.... But maybe if on top of being THE one and only lightworks console it could also easily be a midi controller with great feel for other applications, then more units could be sold.
From what I know, in electronics, the number of units that can be sold is a big contributor to the cost. in order to make a new product you have to set up a production line, and that can be a big upfront cost(sometimes very big). but selling more of a product allows to split the cost of the production line and reduce the overall cost. anyway... that's not my point and sadly I'm not in a situation where I'll have money for such a tool in a foreseeable future.
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Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225143

  • RWAV
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jonathan.bondu wrote:
beautiful. I'd love to understand more closely how the lever system works with its spring system. it looks so cool !


There is a central stop position, detents for both +/- play speed though those are not recommended to replace the play button for guaranteed speed, and some travel beyond the detents - fast enough to go beyond sensible audio monitoring but not so fast that entire scenes are skipped.

As an off-the-wall idea: With some buzz about LW being current, would it perhaps be practical for LW, with the hopefully November version first appearing ,to pre-sell a limited console production run - not make much of a loss and maybe even have some units left over as emergency replacement stock.
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Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225144

what I find fascinating is the way it's mechanically achieved. with the spring system of the jog lever pushing against a wall that is outside of the circle of the lever and jog wheel. and slanting towards the ring. we can see that the lever can move 45°forward and 45° backwards with a resting position in the middle and we can see the little notch (for lack of a better word) that gives to the user that 100% playback speed is reached. at 22° in both directions. with that design it's no wonder that it feels like a precision tool. and obviously the contour shuttle can't compete. the fact of having the resistance of the spring on the outside like this is very good to give a lot of precision and smoothness to the control.
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Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225145

  • David Rasberry
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There are examples of other pro applications, Resolve for instance, that have expensive specifically engineered control surfaces. The full up advanced Resolve color correction console is $30k.
I have no problem with the Lighworks console cost for what it is. Would love to have one. But it is not within price reach.
What options could come between that and the Shuttle Pro, which I use and like except for the lack of jog precision?
I would pay the cost of a Loupedeck for a better controller with a true phase detection rotary encoder.
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Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225147

  • ArteD
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The level of difficulty in producing a suitable replacement is what makes me worry the Console will just be ditched, without any replacements.

By the way, we now have 3 different threads discussing a replacement for the console. It's becoming hard to follow.
I'm not employed by or officially represent LWKS Software Ltd or Lightworks. I'm just a Lightworks user.

Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225148

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I was considering splitting the console out while it was just in one thread, but another one quickly started and I thought the discussions would centre around that thread.

The keyboard is made by Logic Keyboards, so it just involves ordering stock. Although I don't know if there's a minium order and how large that is.
Last Edit: 5 months, 1 week ago by briandrys.

Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225150

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Sorry about that, some of the posting in random thread has been my fault, probably reaching the end of the various narratives anyway. The console and even just awareness of the console is a LW point of difference in a crowded space.
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