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TOPIC: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements

Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225053

  • David Rasberry
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The old console and keyboard are no longer for sale on the website. What could replace these?
We probably need a range of cost options, but at least for accurate jog/shuttle functions key repeat devices like the Shuttle Pro aren't responsive enough. What is needed is a rotary encoder device with a dedicated frame accurate driver.
Are there existing aftermarket devices that could be adapted for these functions?
The keyboard is pretty easy to replace, but we need options for the console.

One possible contender would be the new Black Magic Resolve edit keyboard which could replace both the old console jog shuttle and the keyboard. Key caps are replaceable on this unit, so a custom set for Lightworks functions could be made.
Price at $1k is not cheap, but still far less than the original.


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Other possibilities?
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Last Edit: 5 months, 1 week ago by David Rasberry.

Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225056

  • RWAV
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Not sure how appropriate that route would be - for obvious reasons.

To postulate a console replacement the first step is to understand what the console is and does.

On a few past occasions I have posted advice om how to scroll in the LW timeline from extremely slowly with sub-frame audio scrubbing to a few seconds to cover an hour or more of timeline - all by using a mouse - that procedure emulates the console jog wheel.

Users of Console and Mackie Control surface quickly understand that a mouse can perform many of the functions of that hardware - but of course not as elegantly.

The console jog wheel is an incremental rotary encoder probably/possibly with a software controlled CPR rate via the driver card. The console jog wheel addresses the same behaviours shown with a mouse as described above. The unit in the console is most likely no longer available and in any case high quality well built machine standard rotary encoders are not cheap - perhaps could be found in the $300-$400 range. Here we have Serial consoles still in perfect working order - they were originally shipped with VIP systems back in the last century

The console also has keyboard emulation for the switches and not sure which the forward/back vari-speed paddles addresses.
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Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225057

  • jwrl
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Building your business on an add-on designed for a competing product may not be a good way to go.

Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225059

  • hugly
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jwrl wrote:
Building your business on an add-on designed for a competing product may not be a good way to go.

Indeed, that's no good way to go and, it isn't just a competing product, it's the competing product.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...

Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225060

  • briandrys
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Being able to use a MIDI interface may increase the third party options, assuming that it's possible to make use of the console architecture in Lightworks with some development.

Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225069

  • hugly
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By the way.

David are you aware that the Lightworks Shuttle works out of the box with Resolve? In case one can not afford a DaVinci Resolve Editor Keyboard, they have a good and robust alternative at a truly reasonable price.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...

Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225072

  • briandrys
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Are we talking around a Lightworks re-badged Shuttle pro?

Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225074

  • ArteD
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A very tall order.

There are so many factors that make the current Console basically perfect.

I think the main if not only reason for a replacement is to bring fabrication costs down. So a lot of thought will have to go into it.

My spontaneous suggestion would be basically to keep the same console and just replace the guts with more modern electronics, which may make it cheaper to produce. But the mechanical precision, materials and the like are a big part of the high cost as well as the performance.

There is a reason the Shuttle Pro doesn't hold a candle to the Console even if it's some 25 years younger. But whatever the replacement is, I agree it should never be based on a competitor's product.
I'm not employed by or officially represent LWKS Software Ltd or Lightworks. I'm just a Lightworks user.

Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225075

  • hugly
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briandrys wrote:
Are we talking around a Lightworks re-badged Shuttle pro?

I use a Contour Shuttle Pro v2 purchased elsewhere, which is what my observation is based on. It should work with the re-badged device as well, because it's unlikely that Lightworks has modified the factory settings of the shuttle for Resolve. Why should they?
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 5 months, 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225081

  • David Rasberry
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Shuttle Pro works OK with Resolve. Not relevant to this discussion.

I'm looking for aftermarket devices that could potentially serve as a substitute for the Console with similar jog precision. No key repeat device will do that. Even the keyboard assigned jog keys have the same issues with lag at the beginning of input. It takes the program too long to interpret a key press.

I agree with Arte that the high end console as originally designed should still be the gold standard. What can we find already on the market that can offer a similar level of precision and convenience at a range of price points if there are software drivers for Lightworks available for them? Specifically the jog function is the main issue. A keyboard can do everything else.

I know how rotary encoders work. There are multiple control surfaces out there at different price levels for other software apps that have them. Starting price for a decent one is around $500. They require driver support.

The BMD keyboard seems to have the requisite quality and functionality at a robust professional level. BMD is primarily a hardware manufacturer. That is where they make their money. It is possible that they would brand a version of that device for Lightworks.
Razz

Digital Bolex 2k Cinema DNG raw camera
Canon GL2 DV camcorder
iPAD Mini 3 Iographer rig

Workstation: Intel i7-4770k, Asrock Z87 Thunderbolt 2 MB, 16GB 1866 DDR3 ram,
2TB Seagate Hybrid system drive, 2TB Seagate NAS media drive, E-sata III hot swap drive bay, Nvidia GTX760 2GB GPU
Lightworks kybrd. Shuttlepro v2
Win10 Pro 64bit, Lightworks 14.0 64bit

Mobile Workstation: MSI GTX72 Dominator
Intel i7-6700HQ 2.7GHz Win10 64bit
16GB DDR4 ram, 500GB M.2 SSD
Nvidia GTX970 3GB GPU
USB3, USB3.1-C, Thunderbolt 3 ports
Shuttlepro2 Win10 64bit LW 14.0 64 bit
Last Edit: 5 months, 1 week ago by David Rasberry.

Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225094

If your only editing on lightworks the console is probably wonderful. But unfortunately I personally never had an opportunity to use it because I don't have the budget and I'm not in environments where lightworks is very common even if I brought several new users to it. And if I bought dedicated controllers for every software I use, my desk is going to be quite a mess. I used a contour shuttle express for a bit... it was not great the usb cable was flimsy and it died on me. got it second hand. probably what made it uninteresting was the lack of buttons or just the jog shuttle wheel that didn't change add a lot from my JKL memory muscle, and anyway i was still keyboard dependent.
But I think I'd like to have something that can be used not only on lightworks, but on different programs like capture one. Maybe something like a loupedeck or palette... even though those lack the jog shuttle wheel. and I'm all for keeping an option that would be primarilly in the style of the lightworks console, and I think that it should mainly be all about the feeling of manipulating a tool. and to finish I'll also like David extend my agreement on ArteD's argument
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Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225096

  • David Rasberry
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If an aftermarket jog wheel could be more precise by making it act like a mouse wheel I’m all for it. Could it be as simple as adding mouse wheel jog function as an assignable option under key prefs?
Razz

Digital Bolex 2k Cinema DNG raw camera
Canon GL2 DV camcorder
iPAD Mini 3 Iographer rig

Workstation: Intel i7-4770k, Asrock Z87 Thunderbolt 2 MB, 16GB 1866 DDR3 ram,
2TB Seagate Hybrid system drive, 2TB Seagate NAS media drive, E-sata III hot swap drive bay, Nvidia GTX760 2GB GPU
Lightworks kybrd. Shuttlepro v2
Win10 Pro 64bit, Lightworks 14.0 64bit

Mobile Workstation: MSI GTX72 Dominator
Intel i7-6700HQ 2.7GHz Win10 64bit
16GB DDR4 ram, 500GB M.2 SSD
Nvidia GTX970 3GB GPU
USB3, USB3.1-C, Thunderbolt 3 ports
Shuttlepro2 Win10 64bit LW 14.0 64 bit

Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225098

ArteD wrote:
A very tall order.

There are so many factors that make the current Console basically perfect.

I think the main if not only reason for a replacement is to bring fabrication costs down. So a lot of thought will have to go into it.

My spontaneous suggestion would be basically to keep the same console and just replace the guts with more modern electronics, which may make it cheaper to produce. But the mechanical precision, materials and the like are a big part of the high cost as well as the performance.

There is a reason the Shuttle Pro doesn't hold a candle to the Console even if it's some 25 years younger. But whatever the replacement is, I agree it should never be based on a competitor's product.


what would you think of something with the technology of the loupedeck CT with it's screen button but with the layout of the console (V1 or V2) keeping the iconic jog shuttle lever system. and I think that if such a device would one the one side be compatible with the traditional Lightworks driver but on the other side have some sort of midi translator program, so that people could find creative unse on other program for it. then it would just augment the perceived value of the product... I know people like Vidéo-jockey or people on some fringes of video like VR who like to use those things, and if the tool is still primarily made in ergonomics for lightworks, but has a great touch feeling and the ability to be used elsewhere. I think it's all the better. maybe working with some third party manufacturer could be an option to save costs and have a great tool.
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Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225101

  • David Rasberry
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I think the Loupedeck CT is a good candidate for custom driver support. Some of its keys have fixed labels but assignable functions, some are soft labelled LCD buttons or touch screen buttons. The jog shuttle wheel has a built in touch screen for instant function assignment changes.
Razz

Digital Bolex 2k Cinema DNG raw camera
Canon GL2 DV camcorder
iPAD Mini 3 Iographer rig

Workstation: Intel i7-4770k, Asrock Z87 Thunderbolt 2 MB, 16GB 1866 DDR3 ram,
2TB Seagate Hybrid system drive, 2TB Seagate NAS media drive, E-sata III hot swap drive bay, Nvidia GTX760 2GB GPU
Lightworks kybrd. Shuttlepro v2
Win10 Pro 64bit, Lightworks 14.0 64bit

Mobile Workstation: MSI GTX72 Dominator
Intel i7-6700HQ 2.7GHz Win10 64bit
16GB DDR4 ram, 500GB M.2 SSD
Nvidia GTX970 3GB GPU
USB3, USB3.1-C, Thunderbolt 3 ports
Shuttlepro2 Win10 64bit LW 14.0 64 bit

Re: Suggestions for New Lightworks Console and Keyboard Replacements 5 months, 1 week ago #225102

By the way I think a modern controller like that should have Bluetooth, it would avoid it dying for a stupid cable.
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Most common cameras : Sony Nex EA50 ; Sony A7III

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