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TOPIC: Lightworks Shuttle Pro - frame step problem

Lightworks Shuttle Pro - play -> stop timing problem? 1 year, 8 months ago #188302

  • andrixnet
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I recently got the "Lightworks Shuttle Pro".

While setting up and testing it I encountered the following behaviour problem:

- if I play, then stop using keyboard, I get the expected result.
(ie the video plays, then if stops)

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- if I play, then stop using the console, when the video stops it goes back 1 frame.

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In this example with people walking it is very easy to see the effect.
I used OBS to record my desktop to illustrate the problem.

Is this expected behaviour?
Is this a configuration issue? (I used the default config included with the drivers, as currently available at Contour website.

Thank you.
Video enthuziast; IT specialist
Lenovo V510 laptop
i7 7500U
AMD RADEON R7 M340

Lightworks Shuttle Pro - frame step problem 1 year, 8 months ago #188303

  • andrixnet
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I have recently obtained a "Lightworks Shuttle Pro".

While testing it I discovered an odd behaviour that doesn't show up in the tutorial video.

This is my first such PC console, but I do have experience with physical controls such as the jog/shuttle on BETA equipment. I remember well how precise was frame stepping with the jog control.

Feeling the Shuttle Pro, the notches of the jog control are subtle, but they are there.
Trying to frame step with the jog control I found myself unable to most of the time.

My expectation was that if I move the control one notch, the video will go 1 frame in that direction. It doesn't. I see a brief jump on the audio level (audio panel), but no actual frame step. I slowly move the jog around, the videos till doesn't step.
I move it a bit faster, at one point the video will start moving, move several frames, still move after I physically stop the jog control (about 0.3-0.5 sec afterwards, the video still advances.), then it stops.

So far I found that moving forward (with jog) has this problem much more pronounced then moving backward. Moving backward I was able to move one frame at a time, though not always.

Example of moving forward with jog control.
Since the video shows people walking, it is quite easy to see the motion.
Notice the blips on the audio panel.

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Example of moving backwards.
At first I am able to step one frame at a time. Towards the end of this video, though I am still rotating the jog very slowly, it looks like it accelerates and almost gets out of control. I stop moving the jog some time before the video stops. (~0.3sec)

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=========================================================
Am I doing something wrong?
Is my expectation wrong?
Is this control so delicate, so fine, one needs a lof of experience delicately manouvering it?

I am using the default settings that came with the current drivers from Contour website.

Thank you.
Video enthuziast; IT specialist
Lenovo V510 laptop
i7 7500U
AMD RADEON R7 M340

Re: Lightworks Shuttle Pro - frame step problem 1 year, 8 months ago #188309

  • briandrys
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There is an element of lag with the jog control, so you do need to operate it only for very slow frame rates. Just looking at the viewer as you operate the jog wheel seems to give the best results.

I've combined two threads

Please don't put in near double posts in separate threads, it causes confusion. You can either add an extra message or edit your original post if you wish to add more.
Last Edit: 1 year, 8 months ago by briandrys.

Re: Lightworks Shuttle Pro - frame step problem 1 year, 8 months ago #188323

  • hugly
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andrixnet wrote:
My expectation was that if I move the control one notch, the video will go 1 frame in that direction. It doesn't. I see a brief jump on the audio level (audio panel), but no actual frame step.

The jog-wheel on the Shuttle uses the jog commands from Console commands. They don't work nicely/ergonomically and might be optimized, if optimized at all, for the Lightworks Console with it's dedicated driver. Here you'll find a long discussion about that:
www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=25&id=181859&Itemid=81#181859

This said, from what I see in the video with a Console, the jog-wheel isn't supposed to nudge frames. To me it looks (and other said it) as if it's supposed to simulate jog-wheels of analogue tape machines and those did have some kind of slack (read: delayed reaction to the controls due to mass inertia of the hardware).

However, you can (and I did) assign nudge commands to the jog-wheel of the Shuttle, but don't expect immediate reaction to wheel movements, there's a significant amount of "overshoot", if moved too fast, and behaviour on sequence and source viewer is slightly different. Moving slowly brings you faster to where you wish to go.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 1 year, 8 months ago by hugly.

Re: Lightworks Shuttle Pro - frame step problem 1 year, 8 months ago #188325

  • jwrl
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hugly wrote:
The jog-wheel on the Shuttle uses the jog commands from Console commands. They don't work nicely/ergonomically and might be optimized, if optimized at all, for the Lightworks Console with it's dedicated driver.

That's only partly true, if it's true at all.

The shuttle is essentially a keyboard emulator, and depending on how it is handled by the OS, may have similar buffering issues to deal with as keystrokes do. The Lightworks console is far more direct in its interface with the software. Certainly my mark I (with no jog wheel, admittedly) doesn't suffer the buffering issues that seem to be commonly reported here with the Shuttle Pro.

I would be interested to know how the X-keys devices behave in similar circumstances.

Re: Lightworks Shuttle Pro - frame step problem 1 year, 8 months ago #188326

  • hugly
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I assumed buffering issues on OS level at first place, then the Shuttle itself, but after many hours of testing and comparing reaction time and buffering behaviour of a plain text editor and Lightworks, I'm convinced that there's a great potential for improvements on the Lightworks side regarding jog-wheel operations. On the other hand, the jog-wheel is a "nice to have", but by no means essential for precise and fluent editing with the Shuttle in Lightworks.

I still find that the Contour Shuttle Pro V2 is a nice device. Quality and usability are much better than I would have expected, regarding the price. Everybody should have one.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 1 year, 8 months ago by hugly.
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