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TOPIC: What can the Jog command be used for?

Re: What can the Jog command be used for? 2 years ago #181995

  • gr00by
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David Rasberry wrote:

Jog as far as I know only applies to the Lightworks console jog wheel which is not a keystroke repeat device.


Sounds reasonable. Thanks.
Canon C100 -- Manjaro Linux User

Re: What can the Jog command be used for? 2 years ago #182004

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Sounds reasonable indeed, but for ergonomic operations it should be improved.

Jog and nudge operations on the jog wheel don't work well and this surely isn't god given, but man made and thus, changeable.
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Re: What can the Jog command be used for? 2 years ago #182005

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Eh? You don't have a Lightworks console, so how can you say that the jog command needs to be improved? It's a console command, and is clearly identified as such in the key assignments. It toggles jog mode on the console, which is exactly what it's designed to do. It is a necessary function.

Buy yourself a console and try it. Then if you feel that the jog command needs improving or changing, say so.

If on the other hand you're referring to the keyboard emulation performed by the Shuttle Pro then the jog command has nothing to do with that. Do you feel that it should? What purpose would that serve? I can understand the purpose of the jog right and jog left commands in that context, but not the jog command.

And anticipating the next comment, jog right and jog left are also console commands, because that's what is sent by the console when stop-right and stop-left is pressed. Changing their behaviour may have an impact on the console's performance.

Re: What can the Jog command be used for? 2 years ago #182007

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jwrl, treat it just like another "meaningless" feature request.

There are lots of DAW's which support fine jog-wheel operations with low cost devices. I think poor usability of Contour jog wheel will not sale even one more Console. It just lowers the value of the Contour device for Lightworks users.

Edit: Just to avoid misunderstanding, in my view the problem is fixable with some good will.
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Last Edit: 2 years ago by hugly.

Re: What can the Jog command be used for? 2 years ago #182008

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Can you describe "poor usability of Contour jog wheel"?
Canon C100 -- Manjaro Linux User

Re: What can the Jog command be used for? 2 years ago #182009

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I wouldn't call the shuttle pro jog "poor", more that its at the just about acceptable level, but could be better. It's certainly usable in practice and seems to be working better on Linux than Windows.

I don't know if the X keys controller is better at jogging than the Shuttle Pro.

Re: What can the Jog command be used for? 2 years ago #182011

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gr00by wrote:
Can you describe "poor usability of Contour jog wheel"?

Because jog operations are a simulation of a rotating device with mass, all is about the feeling. My feeling is, I'm controlling the device using a long rubber band.

More technically, it reacts to late and unpredictably when starting rotation, it follows rotation up to a certain speed and overshoots extremely caused by buffering above this certain rotation speed.

Edit: The same buffering and overshooting is also noticeable when assigning nudge commands to the jog wheel.
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Last Edit: 2 years ago by hugly.

Re: What can the Jog command be used for? 2 years ago #182012

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briandrys wrote:
I wouldn't call the shuttle pro jog "poor", more that its at the just about acceptable level, but could be better. It's certainly usable in practice and seems to be working better on Linux than Windows.

I don't know if the X keys controller is better at jogging than the Shuttle Pro.

That's what geomcd1949 said above about the jog function on X-keys: www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=25&id=181859&Itemid=81#181878

I would think that the opinion of Craig Marshall about X-keys and the Shuttle is well known.
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Last Edit: 2 years ago by hugly.

Re: What can the Jog command be used for? 2 years ago #182013

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As I said before my "driver" on linux has no such problem, because it's emitting events at more/less constant frequency. In the other words - there is a some kind of threshold to avoid buffering too many keystrokes.

The problem will occur when Lightworks has slow playback (i.e. highly compressed media).
Canon C100 -- Manjaro Linux User

Re: What can the Jog command be used for? 2 years ago #182014

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What I'm talking about isn't a media issue, I'm testing with streamlined proxies from SSD, shuttle-wheel operations are highly reactive and show 1000% without any lag in both directions.
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Last Edit: 2 years ago by hugly.

Re: What can the Jog command be used for? 2 years ago #182015

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But that isn't anything to do with the topic heading, surely. You asked what the jog command was used for, and you have been answered. The jog command has nothing to do with the operation of the Shuttle Pro.

Unfortunately because in Windows any keyboard emulator is at the mercy of Windows debounce routine and its keystroke buffering you will get the performance problems that you see. It might be possible to overcome that by rewriting the driver for the Shuttle Pro so that it looked more like a console, but without any knowledge of the Shuttle Pro's hardware who can say.

Re: What can the Jog command be used for? 2 years ago #182016

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gr00by,

As a matter of interest, have you tried assigning alpha characters to Jog Right/Left and targeting a plain text editor. What happens if you rotate the wheel real fast, do you see buffering (overshoot) on stop?

Edit: I'm asking this because it appears to me as if the jog-wheel on the Shuttle buffers by itself (on hardware, not on OS level), different from all other controls on the Shuttle.
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Last Edit: 2 years ago by hugly.

Re: What can the Jog command be used for? 2 years ago #182017

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FWIW

My theory at the moment, the unpredictable start delay is caused by Lightworks Jog-left/right command and extreme overshooting by the Shuttle (not the keyboard driver, not OS).
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Last Edit: 2 years ago by hugly.

Re: What can the Jog command be used for? 2 years ago #182018

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hugly wrote:
I would think that the opinion of Craig Marshall about X-keys and the Shuttle is well known.


Craig has given his experience of the X-keys, I don't recall him discussing the Shuttle Pro, more offering the former as an alternative. Given the price difference, I would expect the X-keys to be superior to the Shuttle Pro.

Re: What can the Jog command be used for? 2 years ago #182019

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I believe to remember that Craig wrote that he had a Contour Shuttle Pro first and dropped it for the X-keys 68.

I didn't purchase X-keys 68 because I don't like the rectangular shape, it's too large for the free space on my desktop and I don't need so many keys on top level. To much in all dimensions for me.

My opinion about the Contour Shuttle: Ergonomics and shape is first class (not only for the price). It's symmetrically designed, identically usable left or right handed. The keys are on your finger tips and nine in two rows (5+4) and some modifyers are enough for normal people's brains. It's light and easily movable if you need to, but it doesn't move unintentionally while working. The shuttle-wheel works against feather smoothly without any lag, 5 seconds to get used to (after hours of changing default assignments to adapt to Germany keyboard in Lightworks). The keys are in perfect position to work blindly and they have this nice click when pressing. Nothing gives the impression of a cheap device. I use it left handed, mouse in the right, keyboard somewhere in between, but I suspect I won't need it much other than to key in some text.

All in all, a perfect device - the only downside for me, the jog wheel.

I'm trying to bring Autohotkey in between which allows perfect control of raw keyboard and mouse events, to see what can be done.
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Last Edit: 2 years ago by hugly.
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