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TOPIC: Expensive!

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #23005

  • briandrys
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Having had steel one off's machined, it's not a cheap process. It's even less so when it's a complex shape, probably needing a computer controlled milling machine. Best method could be to use a casting, using say an aluminium alloy, but that's still not a mass produced body price.

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #23006

  • davidchecker
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High impact plastic from a mold, something like a Pelican case?

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #23007

  • briandrys
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You still need to machine a mould that can withstand the high pressure of injection moulding. It's not cheap for low production runs, you probably need to be selling tens of thousands to get the unit cost down.

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #23008

  • davidchecker
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If it's not too complex you might save some money on milling the mold, then also running it through a high volume facility, batching it in with other company's molds for the injection process. Perhaps. Just me speculating

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #23009

  • muroshi
briandrys wrote:
aluminium alloy, but that's still not a mass produced body price.


Would look great and is at least heavier. Estimates?

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #23010

  • briandrys
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As a one off casting, I expect you're still talking about £Hundreds. I suspect a lost wax casting process would keep costs below needed for an injection mould for plastic, but reasonable units costs for a small production run. Finishing etc all adds to the cost. You really need to get a quote for sensible figures. However, don't expect a consumer type price.

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #23011

  • davidchecker
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There's no stock enclosure that would suit this purpose?

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #23012

  • muroshi
Thermoforming wouldn't help?:
www.thingiverse.com/thing:23208

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #23013

  • briandrys
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Depends on how much per hour it costs to design and then manufacture. Materials are cheap, but labour is expensive on any one off.

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #23014

  • bjacquot
Estimates?


For someone else to do the work for you? $500 to $1000 to do a single sand-cast aluminum part, using the original plastic pieces as the "fathers" for the mold.

Possibly less if you can find a workshop that will let you in to do some of the work yourself.

I'm an R&D engineer by day. I can say from experience that one-off custom metalwork is never cheap.

It can be much less expensive to find an off the shelf enclosure that's the right size & shape, and have it worked/machined to fit your controls. Hammond, Bud, Serpac and others all make enclosures that serve as reasonable starting points for customization. It's a lot easier if you can do everything with round holes...in a pinch, you can use a hand drill, though a drill press is highly recommended. Really clean rectangular holes need an arbor punch or milling machine.

Having played with the ShuttlePro in Lightworks for a while now, the interface between the two is the tripping point for me. The Shuttle maps to keystrokes...by the time you've got it configured, you've also got a large portion of your keyboard mapped...if that mapping is sensible and easy to use, you aren't so dependent on the shuttle by the time it's set up.

In contrast, the LW console appears to use a serial port, outside of the keyboard handling. The real trick would be to figure out the serial command protocol being used, then write a translator application that turns Shuttle input into a Windows virtual serial port, making it emulate the console.

Knowing that protocol, it might also open up the possibility for some "middle ground" controllers, like JL Cooper or Euphonix.

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #23015

  • muroshi
bjacquot wrote:

For someone else to do the work for you? $500 to $1000 to do a single sand-cast aluminum part, using the original plastic pieces as the "fathers" for the mold.


Thanks a lot. So we can skip this route.

Hammond, Bud, Serpac


Lets see.


The Shuttle maps to keystrokes...by the time you've got it configured, you've also got a large portion of your keyboard mapped...


*sigh* - I didn't know that you loose those keys. But I probably wouldn't need the numlock pad. The bad thing is I would need it outside LW..

In contrast, the LW console appears to use a serial port, outside of the keyboard handling. The real trick would be to figure out the serial command protocol being used, then write a translator application that turns Shuttle input into a Windows virtual serial port, making it emulate the console.


If it becomes opensource they have to publish that protocol in a few days or it was just a marketing gag to call it opensource.

What about arduino-platform? I know it's used for many kickstarter-projects and some colleagues use it frequently for their stuff.

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #23016

  • rhinox202
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The plan is to one day have Lightworks be open source. May 28th will not be that do! It has been stated in another thread that they are working on the Linux build before things go open source.

Also, I don't know all the "ins and outs" of open source licensing, but I think someone mentioned that they don't have release every bit of code. Interfacing with the console could be one such area.
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Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #23017

  • muroshi
That looks like a marketing stunt.

Open source means just that. Everyone can look at the source code and alter it. Otherwise it would be closed source.
Last Edit: 8 years, 11 months ago by .

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #23018

  • bjacquot
I wouldn't be terribly surprised if console support wasn't in the free or open source versions. What's $60 to support a $2500 piece of hardware?

But if they're R422, it's not hard to sniff the buss, and reverse engineer the protocol...assuming you've got the console to sniff to begin with.

What about arduino-platform?


It'll do. It's probably more powerful than the microcontroller in the original console.

The real hangup isn't the device itself. Reading switches and encoders is pretty cut and dried, and I've worked on lots of products that have done it. Robust mechanical hardware (all metal enclosure, really chunky switches, etc) isn't hard, just expensive. The hard part is interfacing it to the PC, and then interfacing nicely with Lightworks. USB is ugly in itself, and Windows drivers are rather delicate and hard to get right on all flavors of windows.

If you want a Shuttle that's more robust, repackinging one in a metal box is a reasonable exercise. If you want it to emulate the LW Console, sort out the software widget (a new driver or helper app) that builds that bridge.

I've been running through the mental exercise if what a console built on my workbench would take to build, and what a finished product would cost. I reach the conclusion that a JL Cooper MCS is pretty similar, and it would be hard to beat Cooper's price.
Last Edit: 8 years, 11 months ago by .

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #23019

  • Forum Admin
@Muroshi said
That looks like a marketing stunt.


What looks like a marketing stunt? We haven't said anything about how we will release the open source software except that we intend to do it at the appropriate time.
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