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TOPIC: Expensive!

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #22888

  • muroshi
Greg_E wrote:
First you would need to know the API used to talk to the application, then probably license that API.

Or you could go the keyboard emulation route, no one seems interested in anything like that, and even then you'll need to design and program the interface. If you can do all that, then more power to you. If it's better than what I made and as cheap as you think it will be, I'll definitely buy one for myself.


To get my right: I couldn't do it. But I'm sure someone could.
But why licensing? I thought, it's becoming open source soon?

Yours looks interesting, maybe not as ergonomic yet and a bit large. Why not going to a smaller design like shuttle pro?
Last Edit: 8 years, 11 months ago by .

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #22889

  • muroshi
balanceandpeace wrote:


@muroshi: Forthcoming. Will be looking for alpha testers. PM me if interested.


Sorry, I have no smartphone. I'm more interested in something with steel and buttons.

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #22892

  • Greg_E
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Have you tried using a Shuttle Pro? Most of the buttons are not anything close to ergonomic for real extended work. The Shuttle Xpress is pretty decent if you attach it to a keyboard and way cheaper too. This would give you the basic transport controls (play forward, reverse, stop, jog, shuttle, etc) and do it for much cheaper than the Shuttle Pro.

The shuttle and jog functions when using keyboard emulation are not as good as with the Lightworks Console, so you need to be significantly less expensive to make up for the lack of performance. It works and it works fairly well, but it is not up to the same level. If Bella starts printing the Lightworks keycaps and join this with their Contour partner shuttle/jog wheel, this would be the cheapest solution with reasonable results.

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #22894

  • davidchecker
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Greg_E wrote:
Have you tried using a Shuttle Pro? Most of the buttons are not anything close to ergonomic for real extended work. The Shuttle Xpress is pretty decent if you attach it to a keyboard and way cheaper too. This would give you the basic transport controls (play forward, reverse, stop, jog, shuttle, etc) and do it for much cheaper than the Shuttle Pro.

The shuttle and jog functions when using keyboard emulation are not as good as with the Lightworks Console, so you need to be significantly less expensive to make up for the lack of performance. It works and it works fairly well, but it is not up to the same level. If Bella starts printing the Lightworks keycaps and join this with their Contour partner shuttle/jog wheel, this would be the cheapest solution with reasonable results.


The ShuttleXpress has a nice "hockey puck" feel - you can wrap your hand around it comfortably, though the keys definitely feel cheap. I'm not even sure if the Console is equally comfortable, though it's obviously the intended solution and far beyond the level of a plastic Amazon purchase.

The Shuttle Pro is attractive for the additional buttons, but it looks kind of awkward to use, and using keyboard "modifiers" along with button assignments has been a great solution for my use of the Xpress.

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #22906

  • muroshi
Greg_E wrote:
Have you tried using a Shuttle Pro? Most of the buttons are not anything close to ergonomic for real extended work. The Shuttle Xpress is pretty decent if you attach it to a keyboard and way cheaper too. This would give you the basic transport controls (play forward, reverse, stop, jog, shuttle, etc) and do it for much cheaper than the Shuttle Pro.

The shuttle and jog functions when using keyboard emulation are not as good as with the Lightworks Console, so you need to be significantly less expensive to make up for the lack of performance. It works and it works fairly well, but it is not up to the same level. If Bella starts printing the Lightworks keycaps and join this with their Contour partner shuttle/jog wheel, this would be the cheapest solution with reasonable results.


Nope. Will the API commands become public when L goes open source? (If not, that wouldn't be open source, right?)

Would it be possible to build something like the xpress out of havier material?

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #22908

  • Greg_E
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You could take a shuttle device apart and upgrade the shuttle and jog "knobs" as well as use different buttons and a different case, this is how I mount it to the panel I made. I was considering doing this with the Shuttle Pro but decided it didn't do everything I wanted with the 15 buttons and went bigger. I could go back and design something around the ShuttlePro if there was enough interest, but the price would still be around $300 in parts and free labor to machine the case. About $50 could be saved by using panel mount or snap in switches, but it would look even more "industrial" that what I made.

The Shuttle Pro is definitely cramped, the buttons are SMALL and very firm. I have both Xpress and Pro and if I was to use one in stock form for video editing I would use the Xpress and glue it to the side of a keyboard or buy the Bella version.

That said I don't find a regular computer keyboard to be as intuitive as the console or what I made. Everything is grouped right where I wanted it, and has logical function groupings. I may work on color codes with the version 1.1 that I'm assembling right now (had the parts decided I might as well put it together).

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #22910

  • davidchecker
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Greg_E wrote:
You could take a shuttle device apart and upgrade the shuttle and jog "knobs" as well as use different buttons and a different case....


Now there's a little DIY idea that could be lotsa fun. It can't be much more complex than some switches, a pot, and a spring

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #22912

  • Greg_E
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The jog/shuttle is a two level device which is a simple quadrature encoder for the jog and a series of overlapping switches for the shuttle. It can mount with 3 screws to a panel not thicker than about 0.100 inch. The shuttle knob has two keyways positioned 180 degrees apart, one is spaced slightly wider than the other to make sure you can only put the shuttle on one way, jog is much more simple than that. The buttons are nothing special.

The jog/shuttle part is discontinued with no replacement so it will be interesting to see what happens to the Shuttle devices in the next couple of years. In one of the other threads I listed the part number which gives a datasheet.

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #22917

  • muroshi
Greg_E wrote:
You could take a shuttle device apart and upgrade the shuttle and jog "knobs" as well as use different buttons and a different case, this is how I mount it to the panel I made. I was considering doing this with the Shuttle Pro but decided it didn't do everything I wanted with the 15 buttons and went bigger. I could go back and design something around the ShuttlePro if there was enough interest, but the price would still be around $300 in parts and free labor to machine the case. About $50 could be saved by using panel mount or snap in switches, but it would look even more "industrial" that what I made.


Now we are getting somewhere. What machine would be needed for an ergonomic looking round-case of the xpress? Maybe there would be the possibility to work in a FAB LAB.

BTW: There seem to be 20 buttons on the LW console.
www.interlab-net.com/Equipments_showcase/Lightworks_console_in_motion.JPG
Why do you have more than that?
Last Edit: 8 years, 11 months ago by .

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #22937

  • Greg_E
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I have more because it seemed to offer a few more things that I wanted. And actually in the newest version I have the ability to use 4+ levels (base, shift, control, alt.) so it really has almost as many functions as a computer keyboard. The thing I was trying to do was get all the basic functions for editing as well as the basic functions for multicam. The more I looked at it the more functions I found that should be in the base layout, then I went to shift for a second function so I could group similar commands together (insert next/insert, replace next/replace, etc.) and then decided that I might as well put control and alt on there for things like control click and alt click with the mouse, and to bring back a latching level for multicam. If you go back to this thread, you can kind of see the evolution my controller went through:
www.lightworksbeta.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=25&id=6213&Itemid=269
The X-Keys product (on page one) doesn't have good ergonomics, but for many of you it would be fine.

If I did a lot of multicam I would put those functions in the base level and use the modifiers for other things.
Last Edit: 8 years, 11 months ago by Greg_E.

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #22947

  • muroshi
Greg_E wrote:

The X-Keys product (on page one) doesn't have good ergonomics, but for many of you it would be fine.
If I did a lot of multicam I would put those functions in the base level and use the modifiers for other things.


Looks not too bad, but I'm not sure if I would not prefer Xpress and a keyboard over this option. The Xpress really looks ergonomic. I stumbled upon: www.thomann.de/de/euphonix_mc_transport.htm , which is not cheap.

And this www.steinberg.net/de/products/controller/cmc_serie/modelle/cmc_ai.html (only for design-impressions, it's audio).
Last Edit: 8 years, 11 months ago by .

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #22960

  • Greg_E
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Euphonics are now sold under the Avid name, and the Avid color grading panel has some neat features when used in transport mode that could come in really handy for old linear editors that are accustomed to using two jog wheels and two sets of in/out buttons (one each for source and for record sides).

I think for around $150 USD that a Shuttle Xpress and a Lightworks keyboard and some hot glue would be a very good choice for most people. Many hot glue a trackball to the other end of the keyboard.

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #22976

  • muroshi
Maybe the UFO-housing could be machined out of steel and be replaced for a small additional fee?

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #22999

  • Greg_E
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There would be nothing small about the fee unless they started to mass produce it like this.

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 11 months ago #23000

  • muroshi
Greg_E wrote:
There would be nothing small about the fee unless they started to mass produce it like this.


What machine is needed?
Are the buttons of the Shuttle Pro better (the buttons, not the design)?
Last Edit: 8 years, 11 months ago by .
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