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TOPIC: Expensive!

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 2 months ago #40828

  • Greg_E
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  • 8 years, 2 months ago
I would suggest the cheaper Shuttle Xpress, I don't like the button arrangement of the Pro, you still need to get to the keyboard a lot so you might as well save money and really just use the keyboard and the Xpress. You can often find Xpress for $50 (unless the price went up a lot).
Last Edit: 8 years, 2 months ago by Greg_E.

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 2 months ago #40829

  • hamman
I was looking at that one also but I wasn't sure which one would be better worth spending the money on. But since, like you say, I would still end up spending a lot of time on the keyboard and since the Shuttle Xpress is cheaper, that will probably be the way I go. BTW, the SXpress is about $60 nowadays. Thanks for your help!

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 2 months ago #40851

  • VFB
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I don't agree on this.

I use the shuttle pro and almost never have to use the keyboard except I go into color grading.

There are almost indefinite buttons on the shuttle pro because you can use modificator keys.

That said, I rely on my mouse as well and I know Greg hates mouses.

Shuttle pro - left hand, mouse - right.

This way I can drink a cup op coffee when I want to and keep on editing with my left.

Re: Expensive! 8 years, 2 months ago #40872

  • Greg_E
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Maybe the biggest reason I don't like the Shuttle Pro is my hand just doesn't seem to be comfortable on the buttons. I have one, we also use one on our teleprompter in the studio, the buttons just never land under my fingers which is why I went about designing my own. Now I would just suggest the XKey devices, either the older 48 key or the newer 60+ key, if money is no object I would do the 60+ key, and then if money was really no object step up to the Lightworks device.

With the Xkey devices, you can do most work with one hand, leaving the other for coffee (or other beverage) and only need the mouse once in a while.

Re: Expensive! 7 years, 12 months ago #46481

  • techwiz24
Thoughts on my attempt at creating a home-brew-ish console? Link here

Re: Expensive! 7 years, 7 months ago #54836

  • sicofante
While researching for alternatives to the Lightworks console, I landed on this page from B&H: www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Application_Edit+Controllers&ci=16557&N=4231656263+4276734434

Now how on Earth can the LWKS Console's price be justified? Take a look at the Tangent Elements, for instance, which bring you a whole four different panels with tons of functions for about the same price of the LWKS Console and a great reputation (let alone its sleek design).

I think LWKS should at least open-source their controller so others can built it at lower prices, but then again, maybe they think this is a way to monetize an otherwise almost-free software application. (I'm not sure how many will buy such expensive piece when so many outstanding competitors are out there, as the B&H page shows...)

Re: Expensive! 7 years, 7 months ago #54842

  • davidchecker
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uh ... precision mechanical instrument ... purpose built ... not all plastic ... etc ...

Re: Expensive! 7 years, 7 months ago #54843

  • sicofante
Did you even check the B&H page? Or see how Tangent and others build their controllers? They're rock solid and designed for long term professional use.

Purpose built? Is that the new vendor lock-in? What can the Console do that these other completely customizable controllers can't or how does it better?

I'm sorry, but there's no justification for the LWKS Console's price.

Re: Expensive! 7 years, 7 months ago #54848

  • Greg_E
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It's all up to support and how many devices they are willing to support. How can the full Resolve control panel cost $28,000?
www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/738203-REG/Blackmagic_Design_DV_RESOLVE_DaVinci_Resolve.html
When the JLCooper is only $6,000
www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/749095-REG/Blackmagic_Design_DaVinci_Resolve_w_JLCooper.html
And the Tangent is only $4,400
www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/858027-REG/Blackmagic_Design_DaVinci_Resolve_with_Tangent.html
And the Avid Artist panel is only $1,500
www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/900827-REG/Avid_9900_65172_00_Artist_Color_Control_Surface.html

You will find that some of these devices are supported in Lightworks, but I don't remember which ones.

Re: Expensive! 7 years, 7 months ago #54849

  • briandrys
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I suspect you need to physically compare actually using these controllers with Lightworks to say that something isn't worth it. With the increasing user base there may be opportunity for Editshare to manufacture a new version more suited to mass production, but it'll still be specialised kit. However, given that some professionals seem to have using their console for 20 odd years, the cost per year isn't that high and works out a lot better than video cameras in the longer term.

Re: Expensive! 7 years, 7 months ago #54852

  • sicofante
briandrys wrote:
I suspect you need to physically compare actually using these controllers with Lightworks to say that something isn't worth it. With the increasing user base there may be opportunity for Editshare to manufacture a new version more suited to mass production, but it'll still be specialised kit. However, given that some professionals seem to have using their console for 20 odd years, the cost per year isn't that high and works out a lot better than video cameras in the longer term.


Maybe, but if LWKS is willing to make its software too focused on a single device, they'll fail miserably.

Older Tangent devices (not that I'm obsessed with them, but just read a few reviews) have reportedly been in use for more than a decade without missing a beat, and the new ones are built to the same standards, as far as reviewers can say.

I don't quite get why you bring video cameras into the discussion.
Last Edit: 7 years, 7 months ago by .

Re: Expensive! 7 years, 7 months ago #54853

  • sicofante
Greg_E wrote:
It's all up to support and how many devices they are willing to support. How can the full Resolve control panel cost $28,000?
www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/738203-REG/Blackmagic_Design_DV_RESOLVE_DaVinci_Resolve.html
When the JLCooper is only $6,000
www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/749095-REG/Blackmagic_Design_DaVinci_Resolve_w_JLCooper.html
And the Tangent is only $4,400
www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/858027-REG/Blackmagic_Design_DaVinci_Resolve_with_Tangent.html
And the Avid Artist panel is only $1,500
www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/900827-REG/Avid_9900_65172_00_Artist_Color_Control_Surface.html

You will find that some of these devices are supported in Lightworks, but I don't remember which ones.


If/when Lightworks is fully open sourced, any device will work with it. Most of them are software independent, so it just requires a mapping routine to make them work with anything.

The "full" Davinci Resolve control panel is playing the same game as the Lightworks Console, I'm afraid. Blackmagic will charge just a grand for the software and make the money on the hardware. Hey, they even give away the software with most of their cameras. The fact they're aiming at high end post facilities, explains the high price. I've worked on that segment for a long time and these companies don't give a damn about pricing. They'll charge that much for a single day of the Davinci Resolve rental, so who cares? If Editshare is aiming at the same guys they will have to redesign their console. There's no way anyone in the high end industry will buy that 90's looking thing these days. It's OK for the medium to small sized studios, though, but the price is laughable for that sector, when anyone can get a beatiful Avid Transport for 10 times less, or get the amazing Tangent modular suite for exactly the same as the Lightworks antique...

Re: Expensive! 7 years, 7 months ago #54854

  • Henry51
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I use my old VIP console from 1996. It was not easy to let it run on a modern Laptop, but it works quite good now.
I cannot imagine editing with the keyboard. I'm not a typist, I like to concentrate on the picture. Lightworks AND the console is the solution!


IP briandrys wrote:
I suspect you need to physically compare actually using these controllers with Lightworks to say that something isn't worth it. With the increasing user base there may be opportunity for Editshare to manufacture a new version more suited to mass production, but it'll still be specialised kit. However, given that some professionals seem to have using their console for 20 odd years, the cost per year isn't that high and works out a lot better than video cameras in the longer term.
Lightworks 14; 64 Bit; Windows10; Aspire VX15, 16 GB;

Re: Expensive! 7 years, 7 months ago #54855

  • erikvandebelt
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Do not forget that the LW Console exist before LW become free software.
The LW was part of the whole LW edeting machine. And was amazing!!!!
Avid did try tomake a console but it did not work.
When you use LW dayly for work then the console price is OK.

Erik
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Mem. 24.0 GB RAM, NVIDIA Quadro 4000,
WIN. 7 64, Lightwork Pro Licence, LW Keyboard, Console, Mackie. MATROX MXO2 LE.

Re: Expensive! 7 years, 7 months ago #54857

  • sicofante
erikvandebelt wrote:
Do not forget that the LW Console exist before LW become free software.
The LW was part of the whole LW edeting machine. And was amazing!!!!
Avid did try tomake a console but it did not work.
When you use LW dayly for work then the console price is OK.


I don't forget that. What Editshare seems to forget is that we're not in the 90's anymore. They either design a new up to date console or stop charging this ridicule amount for such an outdated piece of hardware. Again, just compare it to the many equally professional and rock solid modern alternatives in the link I provided. Sure, a few nostalgic ones will swear by their ugly Console, but that's not a market, it's a collectors thing.

Avid was the winner in the NLE war that it battled against Lightworks in the early 90's. I was there at that time. Its user base is and will be a couple of orders of magnitude bigger than Lightworks' for quite some time yet. I don't think it's a good idea to mention them... ("Don't talk about Vietnam in front of Nixon", etc.)
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