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TOPIC: 10 bit color video display in 14.5-question for developers.

Re: 10 bit color video display in 14.5-question for developers. 3 months ago #199809

  • hugly
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If people work in industrial environments on colour management, they use equipment and workflows called 'industry standard' and widely accepted as such, no matter what they cost or if there's something equal or better at much lower prices out there. The customers just expect from you to have it. Since they pay for your work, they must be right - I know that from printing industry.

From the point of view of an amateur, technical data and budget are more interesting, and that doesn't look bad: www.tomshardware.com/reviews/benq-pd2700u-4k-hdr-monitor,5975.html
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 3 months ago by hugly.

Re: 10 bit color video display in 14.5-question for developers. 3 months ago #199810

That monitor is 8bit + FRC so not a true 10bit panel and that's OK if everything else is perfect such as Uniformity. Properly calibrated and driven from a Decklink SDI card and BMD's new 4K SDI to DP converter, it should be a pretty good monitor for delivering paid Corporate, Youtube & Facebook videos.

Trouble with HDMI is that you generally only see YUV 4:2:2 but with Display Port, you can get true RGB 4:4:4. With our 12G Decklink SDI converted to DP, we see 4K 4:4:4 at up to 30fps and 4K @ 4:2:2 up to 50/60P.

The cheapest FSI monitors use 8+FRC and they still cost several thousand dollars. It is also essential that your monitor work at native 1:1 resolution and frame rate otherwise you will see scaling and motion artifacts, not your true video signal.
Custom Haswell z87 i7 3.9Ghz 4770
System SSD, 16TB Internal RAID 0, Cache SSD
16GB DDR3, Thunderbolt, Nvidia GTX 970 G1 Maxwell GPU
Lightworks Pro with DNxHD license
Resolve 15 with OxygenTec ProPanel
X-Keys Pro 68 key USB Jog/Shuttle controller
2 x 24" HD GUI, 24" 10bit Rec.709 IPS Monitor
12G Decklink 4K SDI Pro>HD-Link Pro>Display Port
Sony 55" X9005B 4K Client Monitor
Sony Super 35 HD camera with Atomos ProRes Recorder
4x4" matte box/follow focus. Zeiss 'Contax' FF primes with Metabones 'Speed Booster'
Rode NTG-3/I-Rig XLR Phantom preamp
HDvideo4K.com
Last Edit: 3 months ago by Craig Marshall.

Re: 10 bit color video display in 14.5-question for developers. 3 months ago #199813

  • hugly
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While collecting the parts for my new computer end of last year, I had the impression that the display port is the new standard anyway on graphic cards and displays. Finally I decided to purchase a MSI GTX 1060, 6GB, equipped with 2 x display port 1.4, 2 x HDMI 2.0, and 1 x DVI-D.

Theoretically it should be capable to deliver true 10-bit 4:4:4 signals over display port, at least when driven from most recent DirectX, but I'm pretty unsure about the rest of the chain, Lightworks and Windows.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 3 months ago by hugly.

Re: 10 bit color video display in 14.5-question for developers. 3 months ago #199868

This is the monitor I bought. www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-32UK50T-W-4k-uhd-led-monitor

It is 8 bit+frc. I’ll have to get a DP cable, or at least a micro DP adapter for the cable that came with to see how that fares.

I can also try my BM Intensity USB3 capture device to see if that affects display color depth. It does support 10 bit HDMI in and out. Don’t know if Lightworks will support it or not.
Razz

Digital Bolex 2k Cinema DNG raw camera
Canon GL2 DV camcorder
iPAD Mini 3 Iographer rig

Workstation: Intel i7-4770k, Asrock Z87 Thunderbolt 2 MB, 16GB 1866 DDR3 ram,
2TB Seagate Hybrid system drive, 2TB Seagate NAS media drive, E-sata III hot swap drive bay, Nvidia GTX760 2GB GPU
Lightworks kybrd. Shuttlepro v2
Win10 Pro 64bit, Lightworks 14.0 64bit

Mobile Workstation: MSI GTX72 Dominator
Intel i7-6700HQ 2.7GHz Win10 64bit
16GB DDR4 ram, 500GB M.2 SSD
Nvidia GTX970 3GB GPU
USB3, USB3.1-C, Thunderbolt 3 ports
Shuttlepro2 Win10 64bit LW 14.0 64 bit
Last Edit: 3 months ago by David Rasberry.

Re: 10 bit color video display in 14.5-question for developers. 3 months ago #199895

That monitor is native UHD 1:1 which is good. Depending on how well it's refresh rate syncs with your frame rate, it will probably be excellent for editing and all non colour critical grading. LW might support the Intensity box given it is an I/O device. If not, the Devs could probably implement it for the next revision.
Custom Haswell z87 i7 3.9Ghz 4770
System SSD, 16TB Internal RAID 0, Cache SSD
16GB DDR3, Thunderbolt, Nvidia GTX 970 G1 Maxwell GPU
Lightworks Pro with DNxHD license
Resolve 15 with OxygenTec ProPanel
X-Keys Pro 68 key USB Jog/Shuttle controller
2 x 24" HD GUI, 24" 10bit Rec.709 IPS Monitor
12G Decklink 4K SDI Pro>HD-Link Pro>Display Port
Sony 55" X9005B 4K Client Monitor
Sony Super 35 HD camera with Atomos ProRes Recorder
4x4" matte box/follow focus. Zeiss 'Contax' FF primes with Metabones 'Speed Booster'
Rode NTG-3/I-Rig XLR Phantom preamp
HDvideo4K.com
Last Edit: 3 months ago by Craig Marshall.

Re: 10 bit color video display in 14.5-question for developers. 3 months ago #199896

  • hugly
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Since all that Decklinck gear comes bundled with Resolve for free, isn't there anything, beside of Blackmagic, which works fine, is affordable, and could be bundled with Lightworks?
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 3 months ago by hugly.

Re: 10 bit color video display in 14.5-question for developers. 3 months ago #199897

Resolve supports all Decklink and other BMD Video Output and I/O devices but not those from other manufacturers. Lightworks does support several brands though it would be nice if LW supported the latest BMD video Output only cards (+ TB devices for those on Mac) as this would add a cost effective upgrade path for those needing genuine Video monitoring at 10bit. (as opposed to Computer monitoring)
Custom Haswell z87 i7 3.9Ghz 4770
System SSD, 16TB Internal RAID 0, Cache SSD
16GB DDR3, Thunderbolt, Nvidia GTX 970 G1 Maxwell GPU
Lightworks Pro with DNxHD license
Resolve 15 with OxygenTec ProPanel
X-Keys Pro 68 key USB Jog/Shuttle controller
2 x 24" HD GUI, 24" 10bit Rec.709 IPS Monitor
12G Decklink 4K SDI Pro>HD-Link Pro>Display Port
Sony 55" X9005B 4K Client Monitor
Sony Super 35 HD camera with Atomos ProRes Recorder
4x4" matte box/follow focus. Zeiss 'Contax' FF primes with Metabones 'Speed Booster'
Rode NTG-3/I-Rig XLR Phantom preamp
HDvideo4K.com

Re: 10 bit color video display in 14.5-question for developers. 3 months ago #199898

  • lghtwrks
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My first thought "matrox". AJA of course, but probably a higher price tag.

Re: 10 bit color video display in 14.5-question for developers. 3 months ago #199900

  • hugly
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  • 3 months ago
Craig Marshall wrote:
it would be nice if LW supported the latest BMD video Output only cards (+ TB devices for those on Mac) as this would add a cost effective upgrade path for those needing genuine Video monitoring at 10bit. (as opposed to Computer monitoring)

Who knows maybe V15 will?

By the way, the gamers are also the reason of some kind of capture card revival, gameplay on dedicated gaming consoles, Playstation and such, need them to be recorded.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...

Re: 10 bit color video display in 14.5-question for developers. 3 months ago #199901

David Rasberry wrote:
...I’ll have to get a DP cable, or at least a micro DP adapter for the cable that came with to see how that fares...


Remember that if your Motherboard has a Thunderbolt output, it will support vision so you can use a mini DP cable from TB out to Mini DP in on your monitor. (mine does)
Custom Haswell z87 i7 3.9Ghz 4770
System SSD, 16TB Internal RAID 0, Cache SSD
16GB DDR3, Thunderbolt, Nvidia GTX 970 G1 Maxwell GPU
Lightworks Pro with DNxHD license
Resolve 15 with OxygenTec ProPanel
X-Keys Pro 68 key USB Jog/Shuttle controller
2 x 24" HD GUI, 24" 10bit Rec.709 IPS Monitor
12G Decklink 4K SDI Pro>HD-Link Pro>Display Port
Sony 55" X9005B 4K Client Monitor
Sony Super 35 HD camera with Atomos ProRes Recorder
4x4" matte box/follow focus. Zeiss 'Contax' FF primes with Metabones 'Speed Booster'
Rode NTG-3/I-Rig XLR Phantom preamp
HDvideo4K.com

Re: 10 bit color video display in 14.5-question for developers. 3 months ago #199956

Craig Marshall wrote:
That monitor is native UHD 1:1 which is good. Depending on how well it's refresh rate syncs with your frame rate, it will probably be excellent for editing and all non colour critical grading. LW might support the Intensity box given it is an I/O device. If not, the Devs could probably implement it for the next revision.


Lightworks specs say they do support the BMD Intensity interfaces. The only drawback is it's HD only, not 4K. But I can actually split window the monitor and bring it in as a second input at 1/4 screen size full HD rez. I'm not shooting or working in 4k yet anyway. Need to experiment.
I'm running 60Hz refresh rate globally, no monitor sync problems with that at all.
Razz

Digital Bolex 2k Cinema DNG raw camera
Canon GL2 DV camcorder
iPAD Mini 3 Iographer rig

Workstation: Intel i7-4770k, Asrock Z87 Thunderbolt 2 MB, 16GB 1866 DDR3 ram,
2TB Seagate Hybrid system drive, 2TB Seagate NAS media drive, E-sata III hot swap drive bay, Nvidia GTX760 2GB GPU
Lightworks kybrd. Shuttlepro v2
Win10 Pro 64bit, Lightworks 14.0 64bit

Mobile Workstation: MSI GTX72 Dominator
Intel i7-6700HQ 2.7GHz Win10 64bit
16GB DDR4 ram, 500GB M.2 SSD
Nvidia GTX970 3GB GPU
USB3, USB3.1-C, Thunderbolt 3 ports
Shuttlepro2 Win10 64bit LW 14.0 64 bit
Last Edit: 3 months ago by David Rasberry.

Re: 10 bit color video display in 14.5-question for developers. 3 months ago #199970

Will your the monitor auto up-rez HD to 4K like TVs do? That way, you can have two LW outputs and switch between:

1) Lightworks F12 GPU 8bit full screen display on say, DVI-D input and
2) Intensity 10bit output on HDMI input (confirm monitor will do 10bit on HDMI?)

Even if 2) is only at HD windowed at half screen, it will be better for Grading accuracy after your Edit in full screen 4K.

PS: in the spec, PG2401PT says 10bit on HDMI and DP but in test it is DP only but it is an 'old' monitor by today's HDMI standards.
Custom Haswell z87 i7 3.9Ghz 4770
System SSD, 16TB Internal RAID 0, Cache SSD
16GB DDR3, Thunderbolt, Nvidia GTX 970 G1 Maxwell GPU
Lightworks Pro with DNxHD license
Resolve 15 with OxygenTec ProPanel
X-Keys Pro 68 key USB Jog/Shuttle controller
2 x 24" HD GUI, 24" 10bit Rec.709 IPS Monitor
12G Decklink 4K SDI Pro>HD-Link Pro>Display Port
Sony 55" X9005B 4K Client Monitor
Sony Super 35 HD camera with Atomos ProRes Recorder
4x4" matte box/follow focus. Zeiss 'Contax' FF primes with Metabones 'Speed Booster'
Rode NTG-3/I-Rig XLR Phantom preamp
HDvideo4K.com

Re: 10 bit color video display in 14.5-question for developers. 3 months ago #199978

Yes the monitor does uprez HD to the full 4K screen.
I am thinking of using the 10 bit output from the BMD intensity for grading. Resolve supports it too.
The monitor has multiple inputs and will do several different windowing formats up to three connected sources: 2 x HDMI, 1 x DP
Looking through the manual specs, it supports 10 bit display for 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 HDMI YCbCr video only, HD or 4K deep color. Not for RGB or 4:4:4 modes.
Looks like my standard workflow for 1080p HD 10 bit 4:2:2 Cineform or Prores editing using the BMD Intensity is the way to go.
Razz

Digital Bolex 2k Cinema DNG raw camera
Canon GL2 DV camcorder
iPAD Mini 3 Iographer rig

Workstation: Intel i7-4770k, Asrock Z87 Thunderbolt 2 MB, 16GB 1866 DDR3 ram,
2TB Seagate Hybrid system drive, 2TB Seagate NAS media drive, E-sata III hot swap drive bay, Nvidia GTX760 2GB GPU
Lightworks kybrd. Shuttlepro v2
Win10 Pro 64bit, Lightworks 14.0 64bit

Mobile Workstation: MSI GTX72 Dominator
Intel i7-6700HQ 2.7GHz Win10 64bit
16GB DDR4 ram, 500GB M.2 SSD
Nvidia GTX970 3GB GPU
USB3, USB3.1-C, Thunderbolt 3 ports
Shuttlepro2 Win10 64bit LW 14.0 64 bit

Re: 10 bit color video display in 14.5-question for developers. 3 months ago #199995

Great! Let's know how it goes. In my case, the quality difference between LW 8bit full screen display DVD-D and 10bit Decklink SDI > Display Port on the same monitor is like 'chalk & cheese'.
Custom Haswell z87 i7 3.9Ghz 4770
System SSD, 16TB Internal RAID 0, Cache SSD
16GB DDR3, Thunderbolt, Nvidia GTX 970 G1 Maxwell GPU
Lightworks Pro with DNxHD license
Resolve 15 with OxygenTec ProPanel
X-Keys Pro 68 key USB Jog/Shuttle controller
2 x 24" HD GUI, 24" 10bit Rec.709 IPS Monitor
12G Decklink 4K SDI Pro>HD-Link Pro>Display Port
Sony 55" X9005B 4K Client Monitor
Sony Super 35 HD camera with Atomos ProRes Recorder
4x4" matte box/follow focus. Zeiss 'Contax' FF primes with Metabones 'Speed Booster'
Rode NTG-3/I-Rig XLR Phantom preamp
HDvideo4K.com
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