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TOPIC: Titling causes letterboxed image to flatten in Y-axis

Titling causes letterboxed image to flatten in Y-axis 2 months, 3 weeks ago #196414

  • Doofer
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My project is letterboxed (Project.Video.Letterbox), and when I put some titles (unfolded) on the end, something odd happens in the preview window: the picture flickers between what you'd expect (letterboxed image filling the preview window) and a flattened image (and title font) with black bars top & bottom. If I play the video the image is normal, but if I stop it, it goes flat. If I move the Lwks program window, the effect flickers on & off.

It's not a disaster, since the F12 view stays fine and video exports fine. It's just rather irritating, trying to make aesthetic decisions about titling when the image is flickering between normal & flattened in the main preview window.

Re: Titling causes letterboxed image to flatten in Y-axis 2 months, 3 weeks ago #196419

  • RWAV
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Don't see a flickering thing happening here - but do see scaling switching as you describe with play/stop/play commands.

This routing - no doubt there are others - puts an end to all of that.

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Re: Titling causes letterboxed image to flatten in Y-axis 2 months, 3 weeks ago #196422

  • hugly
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Doofer wrote:
the picture flickers between what you'd expect (letterboxed image filling the preview window) and a flattened image (and title font) with black bars top & bottom.

That's only in VFX mode of Fixed layout with V14.5, correct?
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Re: Titling causes letterboxed image to flatten in Y-axis 2 months, 3 weeks ago #196425

  • RWAV
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As per my previous post - I see a variation of the reported behaviours without flickering but with jumps between states during play/stop - this is in Flexible.
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Re: Titling causes letterboxed image to flatten in Y-axis 2 months, 3 weeks ago #196426

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Ah, I see. Here, in Flexible it appear only with 'Effects' panel open, and only in 'Settings' and 'Graphs' tab, not in '+' and 'Routing' tab. When switching from 'Routing' or '+' to Settings or 'Graph' hovering with the mouse over the viewer is sufficient to force the jump. With V14.0 things are somehow different (even worse), that indicates some modification to the code with V14.5.

As far as I can remember, the issue has been reported with some early 14.0 beta.
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Last Edit: 2 months, 3 weeks ago by hugly.

Re: Titling causes letterboxed image to flatten in Y-axis 2 months, 3 weeks ago #196439

  • Doofer
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Thanks, I couldn't find a previous reference to it. Yes, v14.5 in flexible with Settings open (editing the text in a title). Thanks for the routing tip!

Re: Titling causes letterboxed image to flatten in Y-axis 1 month, 3 weeks ago #197716

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(Trying to finish off some titles with the producer in the room yesterday. Not only the monitor window flashing between the correct view and the squished view, but the F12 view sometimes losing letterboxing! I hope they sort out this (bug?) soon; trying to compare fonts when the height to width ratio keeps hopping about on screen was, well, just embarrassing...)

Re: Titling causes letterboxed image to flatten in Y-axis 1 month, 3 weeks ago #198058

  • Doofer
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(RE. RWAV's suggestion of putting a Blend in at the top to stop this): Only works sometimes!
Last Edit: 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Doofer. Reason: (I didn't reference RWAV's suggestion at first, so my comment didn't make sense)

Re: Titling causes letterboxed image to flatten in Y-axis 1 month, 3 weeks ago #198061

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Does your project require letterboxing at project settings level, or would a workaround without this project setting be an option to avoid these many problems? (black bars per effect?)

From another thread:
Doofer wrote:
It does make me rethink my workflow for a final output that is letterboxed.

What would be perhaps more useful would be a 'normal' preview window with adjustable letterbox lines, so I can see all my material including anything that is just outside the intended final letterbox.

This might also avoid the 'letterbox flickering with titles' problem we discussed recently. However, I haven't found a function in Lwks to give me frame lines, which are usually visible only as lines, then a tickbox to enable them as per Project.Video.Letterbox.

This is a different thread, mind!
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Last Edit: 1 month, 3 weeks ago by schrauber. Reason: Quote and link added

Re: Titling causes letterboxed image to flatten in Y-axis 1 month, 3 weeks ago #198068

  • Doofer
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Letterboxing as a global setting seemed a good idea, without the risks a black bars Effect might bring e.g. coming adrift in complex routing (as if such a thing would ever happen??).
However, until this bug - and it surely is a bug? - is fixed, I will not be recommending using the project Letterbox setting to anyone that is going to use titles.

Re: Titling causes letterboxed image to flatten in Y-axis 1 month, 3 weeks ago #198079

  • jwrl
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Just one question: is the media that you're using interlaced or progressive? I have found in the past that effects using the internally supplied value for frame height give different results for interlaced media when stopped and playing. In effects that I write I always derive the frame height by multiplying the frame width by the aspect ratio for exactly that reason.

If it's that mechanism that's producing this result the squashed version will be exactly half the height that it should be.
Last Edit: 1 month, 3 weeks ago by jwrl.

Re: Titling causes letterboxed image to flatten in Y-axis 1 month, 3 weeks ago #198086

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Progressive, not interlaced.

Re: Titling causes letterboxed image to flatten in Y-axis 1 month, 3 weeks ago #198129

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I'm pretty sure that this (or a very similar) problem has been already reported with V14.0. I suspect in beta forums, since I can't find the discussion.

FWIW

When watching the phenomenon in Fixed layout, it's pretty obvious that it has something to do with not properly set viewer dimensions. It happens only in VFX mode. What it shows there is cropping. Mouse movement over the viewer and playback start/stop trigger the event. In Flexible layout things appear differently. There, the content is squashed on playback, remarkably only if the panels 'Effects.Settings' or 'Effects.Graph' are selected, but not with 'Effects.Routing', or 'Effects.+', or Effects panel closed. Sounds pretty weird, doesn't it? Things under the hood are "wired" quite complicated, as it seems. This is how it looks:


The next problem arises when comparing Youtube export and export to image sequences with Letterbox different from 0,0. The letterbox is applied differently, here it crops the input (as expected) and there it doesn't. I'm still mulling over meaningful use cases for such a behaviour. Hope we can get rid of all this with the next build, but that's another discussion.
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Last Edit: 1 month, 3 weeks ago by hugly.
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