Welcome, Guest
Username Password: Remember me
  • Page:
  • 1

TOPIC: Transcoding to DVCPRO100 removes interlacing

Transcoding to DVCPRO100 removes interlacing 3 months, 2 weeks ago #168928

  • andrixnet
  • OFFLINE
  • Expert Boarder
  • Posts: 93
  • 3 months, 2 weeks ago
I have a short clip shot with a Panasonic FHD camera, resulting file is MTS container, H264 (HDMV) yuv420p 1920x1080i 25fps top frame first SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9.

AFAIK LWKS recognizes this file and can work well with it.

I have just attempted to try the transcoding options. These are:
Containers:
  • AVI
  • MOV

Note: I only used AVI container.

Compression:
  • DVCPRO 100
  • YUYV
  • UYVY
  • Matrox YUYV
  • CineForm


I made copies of my clip and imported each one with different transcoding.
I took notice of the cookie and inspected each file as it was generated in the media folder.

All files are still displayed as HD 1080i (1920x1080), however the results are different, both as files on disk and how they are handled by LWKS in edit.

  • DVCPRO 100 - dvh1 1440x1080 SAR 4:3 DAR 16:9, non-interlaced, still shown as 1080i in editor
  • YUYV - rawvideo, 1920x1080 interlaced
  • UYVY - rawvideo, 1920x1080 interlaced
  • Matrox YUYV - M102, 1920x1080 interlaced yuyv422
  • CineForm - CFHD, 1920x1080 interlaced yuv422p101e


The only problem is DVCPRO 100, the results of which are strange, to say the least.
- image is resized to 1440x1080 (loses pixel resolution). This is according to the specs.
- resulting image is actually progressive.

I have worked previously (in other editor) with DVCPRO footage resulted as native export from cameras. The image was interlaced.

Why does this transcoding perform a deinterlace, in this case?

Matrox YUYV (similar to original)
This image is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.


DVCPRO 100 (deinterlaced)
This image is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.


Clip parameter listing
This image is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.


IMO listing the DVCPRO 100 file as 1080i is correct, but listing it as 1920x1080 is wrong, because pixel size is 1440 horizontal and the footage is upscaled horizontally at decode time.
Last Edit: 3 months, 2 weeks ago by andrixnet.

Re: Transcoding to DVCPRO100 removes interlacing 3 months, 1 week ago #169081

Hi,

Interesting. Can you see any difference if you change the project format from "1080p (sf) 25fps" to "1080i 25fps", in the video tab (where you change the Transcoding format)?

Can you try and export the progressive file from LW and see if the result is still progressive (a few seconds .jpg sequence for instance)? I have found it impossible to convert interlace to progressive with only LW. With Boris installed you can and If you download and apply the Deinterlace.fx effect from the forum category "effect" and Topic "User Effects files (Post #1 has them all) you can as well.

C.E
HP Workstation Z620, LW 12.6 64-bit, Win 10, CPU: 2 x Xeon (R) E5-2660. 8 Core/HT 2,20 GHz, RAM: 32 GB, Graphic: NVIDIA Quadro K2200 4 GB of GPU memory, Decklink mini monitor 4k, SSD: Samsung 850 EVO 256 GB.

Re: Transcoding to DVCPRO100 removes interlacing 3 months, 1 week ago #169087

  • andrixnet
  • OFFLINE
  • Expert Boarder
  • Posts: 93
  • 3 months, 1 week ago
@cadenza.editore: I am not sure what you are asking. Please clarify.

Please also read this thread: www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=7&id=168929&Itemid=81 as there may be confusion between the two.

Re: Transcoding to DVCPRO100 removes interlacing 3 months, 1 week ago #169090

Ok, I didn't read the other topic. For me the question was:

"The only problem is DVCPRO 100, the results of which are strange, to say the least".

and

"- resulting image is actually progressive."


So to see if that was true, my suggestion was to go the whole way and also export it (which is not described here). Some media player correct interlaced video to progressive, therefore my tip was to export as jpg sequence to easily see if the picture is interlaced or not.

Now I think I know what you mean. Looong time ago I did similar tests and thought that my imported interlaced video could be converted to progressive on export, only if I chose a format with the letter p after. I learnt that that was not the case. But frankly I don't mind.

I understand your question about the red circle. Sure you can wish for programmers to fix things, but mixing different format inside a project is looking for trouble whether that is i and p or different fps.

Interlacing seem to be a science of its own. I would put a "Feature Requests" for more transcoding options on import, rather than wish for everything to somehow be fixed on export, for every possible situation.

C.E
HP Workstation Z620, LW 12.6 64-bit, Win 10, CPU: 2 x Xeon (R) E5-2660. 8 Core/HT 2,20 GHz, RAM: 32 GB, Graphic: NVIDIA Quadro K2200 4 GB of GPU memory, Decklink mini monitor 4k, SSD: Samsung 850 EVO 256 GB.

Re: Transcoding to DVCPRO100 removes interlacing 3 months, 1 week ago #169140

  • andrixnet
  • OFFLINE
  • Expert Boarder
  • Posts: 93
  • 3 months, 1 week ago
@cadenza.editore: please read my recent posts in this topic www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=7&id=168929&limit=15&limitstart=15&Itemid=81#169139 as well. I deem them highly important.
You can find there also a fragment of my original .MTS footage as it came out from the camera.

I can't export to JPG sequence (at this time), my exports are limited to Youtube/Vimeo 720p, but:

Exported a short fragment of the imported footage with DVCPRO100 transcoding:
This attachment is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.


Exported a short frament of the same source footage imported as transcoded with MATROX YUYV (result same as linked footage):
This attachment is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.


With regard to the other topic I mentioned, this project was created with "mixed" frame rate as initial setting.

Re: Transcoding to DVCPRO100 removes interlacing 3 months, 1 week ago #169214

At the moment I am working in LW 14 Beta RC 4 or 5. I am not able to transcode to DVCPRO100 at all, so I can't follow your tests. I don't have much more to add.

I believe hugly is right when he says the video has wrong field order. What field order is your red circle for instance?

I made a test where I imported a .jpg image sequence with odd/upper/topfield field first and one .jpg image sequence with even/bottom/lower field first. Both 1920x1080, graphics rendered earlier from Fusion or After effects (don't remember).

If I set the "view settings" to "Format 1080i" and play my both test files on the same timeline/sequence, one of the clip is smoother than the other and seems to be "deinterlaced", until you pause. The different view settings (1080p and 1080i) has different effects on the files (too difficult to explain in detail...)

Does LW only read one field order or is it the mixing of my two files on the same sequence that messes it up (guess I can make some more testing to find that out)? Does the "view-setting" in LW affect how the transcoding is done (I always use link so I don't have to care)?

I can not see how different "view-setting" would have any impact or effect to an exported file anyway.

C.E
HP Workstation Z620, LW 12.6 64-bit, Win 10, CPU: 2 x Xeon (R) E5-2660. 8 Core/HT 2,20 GHz, RAM: 32 GB, Graphic: NVIDIA Quadro K2200 4 GB of GPU memory, Decklink mini monitor 4k, SSD: Samsung 850 EVO 256 GB.

Re: Transcoding to DVCPRO100 removes interlacing 3 months, 1 week ago #169216

  • hugly
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 14275
  • 3 months, 1 week ago
Beside of that everything being told so far about behaviour of interlaced footage in Lightworks and interlaced material in general remains true - I've just detected that there's an issue in preview with andrixnet's mts file with V14.1 RC 7 in 24 fps projects (mixed rates) and it doesn't show in 25 fps project with the same footage. That's a bug, most likely: Unexpected artifacts in preview of 24 fps projects with some kind of interlaced footage. The files exported to 1080i25 from 24 and 25 fps project look as expected, interlaced with correct field order, as far as I can see.

Preview comparison between 24 and 25 project with same settings on import (1080i25) and project video.output.format 1080i25:
This attachment is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Frankly, I don't understand exactly what I see there.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 3 months, 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: Transcoding to DVCPRO100 removes interlacing 3 months, 1 week ago #169219

  • hugly
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 14275
  • 3 months, 1 week ago
cadenza.editore wrote:
Does the "view-setting" in LW affect how the transcoding is done (I always use link so I don't have to care)?

No, the settings in video.output.format, the "view-settings", have no impact on transcoding, only preview.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 3 months, 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: Transcoding to DVCPRO100 removes interlacing 3 months, 1 week ago #169379

  • andrixnet
  • OFFLINE
  • Expert Boarder
  • Posts: 93
  • 3 months, 1 week ago
But the selection of output format does, so I've been told.

Re: Transcoding to DVCPRO100 removes interlacing 3 months, 1 week ago #169397

  • hugly
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 14275
  • 3 months, 1 week ago
andrixnet wrote:
But the selection of output format does, so I've been told.

Can you give me one example where changing settings of video "output format" change the format of a file imported via Transcode visible with Mediainfo on the transcoded file.

I mean these settings (which should not have any impact on the format):

This image is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.


Not those (which do have impact on the format):

This image is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

This image is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 3 months, 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: Transcoding to DVCPRO100 removes interlacing 3 months, 1 week ago #169408

  • andrixnet
  • OFFLINE
  • Expert Boarder
  • Posts: 93
  • 3 months, 1 week ago
I appologize for being unclear. I was refering to output format in the export dialog.

Re: Transcoding to DVCPRO100 removes interlacing 3 months ago #169433

  • hugly
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 14275
  • 3 months ago
I see, thanks.

Yes, Pro version supports export to various interlaced formats.

I've created a short sequence with your footage in a 25 fps project with a reverse speed change (and minor modifications on audio) and exported in 1080i25 to some available interlaced formats, namely Cineform.mov, XDCAM HD, BDAV(h.264), and h.264/MP4.

If you wish testing with those files, here you'll find them - 80 MB downloadable within the next 7 days: we.tl/x9lDby7zbB


For your information, this report's been initiated by and is based on your findings: www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=409&id=169403&Itemid=81
It's better to travel well than to arrive...

Re: Transcoding to DVCPRO100 removes interlacing 3 months ago #169445

  • andrixnet
  • OFFLINE
  • Expert Boarder
  • Posts: 93
  • 3 months ago
Thank you.
  • Page:
  • 1
Time to create page: 0.63 seconds
Scroll To Top