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TOPIC: Exporting subtitles

Re: Exporting subtitles 1 year ago #161168

  • RWAV
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That's all very nice for a consumer system.

Not an expert but I know that subtitling data interchange goes well beyond .srt and .txt files.
For LW, as a professional product, to implement professional level subtitling it would need at least open Subtitle and Closed Caption support in at least whatever SMPTE and EBU subtitle format standards might apply to each master-export format. It wold also need the more common other formats like AVID subtitles, .890, .pac, various XML formats, .srt and .txt.
LW would need to output burnt in titles as well as real time transport-stream insert-able files for all the common broadcast, cable, Digital Cinema formats, frame rates and timecode variants as well as the all the semi-proprietary formats demanded by Netflix and the like.
With all this one would be able to output a final product with, I guess embedded, multi-language left-to-right or right-to-left written text.
Frankly there is far more to subtitles than the consumer oriented PowerDirector has explored

The here-and-now reality is LW does not have a high level subtitle tool and of course it would be a welcome addition - so if at present one wishes to use LW in a subtitle heavy production it would be prudent to mind-map and implement a workflow eliminating the pain as is being experienced here-and-now by the OP.
The use of a third party subtitling package wold seem to be a likely route.
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Re: Exporting subtitles 1 year ago #161178

  • hugly
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Yes, things are quite complex: Subtitle_(captioning)

Demanding all at once optimizes the chances to get nothing implemented.

To leave the state of completely missing support of standardized subtitle exchange, I'd suggest starting with SCC and SRT which are widely supported.

This could be handled by a newly invented effect that can read, interprete and write those files as well as burn the subtitles in, if needed. This would enable creating and exporting standardized subtitle files in Lightworks and importing subtitles from other applications as well.
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Last Edit: 1 year ago by hugly.

Re: Exporting subtitles 1 year ago #161183

  • RWAV
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A Wikipedia link is a poor substitute for a coherent position.
The suggested 'starting position' is manifestly inadequate.
'Burning subtitles' is but a small component of the full scope of this topic.
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Re: Exporting subtitles 1 year ago #161185

  • hugly
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To be honest, I don't believe that they plan to implement support of even the easiest standardized subtitle format in the near future, but I understand the demand of people.
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Last Edit: 1 year ago by hugly.

Re: Exporting subtitles 1 year ago #161207

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FWIW

This shows lists of standardized subtitle formats currently supported by Youtube.

support.google.com/youtube/answer/2734698?hl=en

From a marketing point of view, I'd choose .scc to start with in order to get widest impact on the market.
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Re: Exporting subtitles 1 year ago #161218

  • RWAV
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Subtitling is not part of the V14 feature set, whether it will be in V15, 16, 17 or 18 remains to be seen, as would the question if it would be a Pro feature.

Of course it wold be beneficial to have an up to date contemporary subtitle tool within LW. Have done enough subtitling with the LW text tool to know it can be time consuming.

But subtitling is not a sub-set of a VFX system it is a separate entity with specialist export requirements; subtitling today is seldom an on-picture burn-in, in broadcast it is (or used to be) embedded into the transport stream as separate Packet Identifier(s), don't know but suspect a similar concept applies to Digital Cinema transport streams and probably SDI formats have available discrete metadata space within the stream. As we all know subtitling can be turned on or off and a number of languages choices are generally available.

This is the environment LW would need to embrace with a dedicated professional standard subtitler, agree it is not likely to happen very soon, but then the LW developers do have a habit of springing surprises. It is inconceivable to me that the question of subtitling would never have been raised at planning meetings within LW.
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Re: Exporting subtitles 1 year ago #161221

  • hugly
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I tend to speak for recent consumer needs.

I don't konw about the needs of the industry, but I believe they mostly use the three big A's and not the little L.
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Last Edit: 1 year ago by hugly.

Re: Exporting subtitles 1 year ago #161238

  • RWAV
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Responding to your post as I read it pre your edit: Apparently you also do not know about current needs of the industry.

Both LW and Avid are used in a very broad spectrum of operations. Yes, Avid is pretty difficult to shift from established mainstream broadcast and film operations but (a) in may cases these are supplied by external production houses who are less straitjacketed (b) worldwide traditional broadcasters are under duress from developing distribution methods. Currently an equivalent substantial LW installation can be supplied at significantly lower cost than a Avid.

As a supplier over time of both LW and Avid editing suites to national broadcasters I see the considerable pressures from accountancy firms being brought in for cost-saving audits and I also see the original evangelically pro-Avid brigade of managers and executives reaching retirement age; so I would suggest this is a space worth watching for signs of a bean-counter mandated rollback from Avid costs. This is no time, for an NLE like LW with an industrial pedigree dating back as far as Avid, to be the first to blink.

The consumers on whose behalf you advocate are attracted to LW not for its familiarity nor for features equivalent to the very many consumer NLE platforms available - they are attracted to the power and effectiveness of LW's professional/industrial features even if they are really only pecking away on the surface of what is there to be found.

Only LW and the users themselves really know - but it seems plausible that the majority of LW Pro users are part of or have ambition to be part of the 'new' moving image industries - many cases they have outgrown their simpler NLEs - LW needs to not disappoint with a regression into a consumer focussed system.
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Re: Exporting subtitles 1 year ago #161247

  • Jpaulbiss
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RWAV wrote:
LW needs to not disappoint with a regression into a consumer focussed system.


So true
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Re: Exporting subtitles 1 year ago #161253

  • hugly
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The nineties are behind us.

I will not agree that a subtitling tool integrated into Lightworks will do any harm to Lightworks ability to be used (and sold) in the industrial market (if there's any remarkable market share in the industrial market left).
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Re: Exporting subtitles 1 year ago #161267

  • RWAV
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Your comment
(if there's any remarkable market share in the industrial market left)
is unintelligible.

Whilst ever there is a market there are a market shares to be had, particularly so in an increasingly dynamic market place, all that remains in question is how those shares are divided amongst participating players.

For the good of the craft, LW Must not abandon that participation by diminishing itself.
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Re: Exporting subtitles 1 year ago #161336

  • hugly
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I agree with all those who say that importing, handling and exporting some - at least one - standardized subtitle formats would be a valueable feature for Lightworks.
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Re: Exporting subtitles 1 year ago #161339

  • RWAV
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If that was to be the case - it should be in an EBU/SMPTE format with allowance to specify frame rate and timecode options to facilitate a seamless transfer to the inevitable third party software for finishing.
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Re: Exporting subtitles 1 year ago #161355

  • hugly
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EBU/SMPTE?

Which one?

I doubt that this is the best choice.
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Re: Exporting subtitles 1 year ago #161363

  • jwrl
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Personally, I agree with both you and RWAV that subtitling support in LW would be a good thing. But where I strongly disagree with you and completely agree with RWAV, is that to be useful it must follow a recognised industry standard.

I really believe that this thread has gone as far as it can reasonably go, and is now diverging into the realms of "what if" rather than "here's how". Thank you, osaeris for your positive contribution. Since the author of Aegisub has already created Windows, OS-X and Unix versions, they may be prepared to come to some agreement with Editshare to allow inclusion of their code in a future version of Lightworks if an approach was made.

And there are other subtitling tools available out there too. Whether any of them will ever be a priority item to include in Lightworks, who knows?
Last Edit: 1 year ago by jwrl.
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