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TOPIC: Cineform front-end

Re: Cineform front-end 1 week, 1 day ago #193074

  • Craig Marshall
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I guess the same issue will arise. The only reason I though of DPX was because I recently recorded a programme directly off Youtube (using Win/ALT/R) and tested a couple of conversions and DPX Tiff seemed to be the best 'mezzanine' option as there was no banding present as I had seen with some other formats.

With the 2nd pass of CF, we now have this workflow:

{H264 > Cineform 'a' > Cineform 'b'} in Lightworks, then
{Cineform 'b' > Uncompressed Master} out of Resolve and finally,
{Uncompressed Master to H264/H265 Deliverable} in FFMPEG using x264

That's starting to get a long way from the original image... Any codec change will degrade the image due to ABCRonnie's beloved 'concertina effect' but keeping to Uncompressed or DPX where possible, helps reduce this.
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Last Edit: 1 week, 1 day ago by Craig Marshall.

Re: Cineform front-end 1 week, 1 day ago #193075

  • hugly
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Craig Marshall wrote:
That's starting to get a long way from the original image...

Indeed and maybe unnecessary.

Real time screen capture from browser playback is the step which destroys most quality in this workflow, together with frame rate accuracy. There's a long list of browser plugin to directly download from Youtube, why not using one of those, instead of using Game DVR?
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Last Edit: 1 week, 1 day ago by hugly.

Re: Cineform front-end 1 week, 1 day ago #193076

  • Craig Marshall
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The image quality was not an issue as the Game DVR recording was just a test and not something I normally do. (I have the original 4K 30P Mavic Pro pictures coming down from the Taiwanese Youtuber so will work with them in the usual way)

For future 4K H264 edits, where precise frame accuracy is not required, I think a direct Lightworks ingest, followed by an Edit then an Export direct to Deliverable will suffice. At least with LW now reading my Decklink card, I can colour correct and Monitor to the same SDI 10bit precision as in Resolve.
Custom Haswell z87 i7 3.9Ghz 4770
System SSD, 16TB Internal RAID 0, Cache SSD
16GB DDR3, Thunderbolt, Nvidia GTX 970 G1 Maxwell GPU
Lightworks Pro with DNxHD license
Resolve 15 with OxygenTec ProPanel
X-Keys Pro 68 key USB Jog/Shuttle controller
2 x 24" HD GUI, 24" 10bit Rec.709 IPS Monitor
12G Decklink 4K SDI Pro>HD-Link Pro>Display Port
Sony 55" X9005B 4K Client Monitor
Sony Super 35 HD camera with Atomos ProRes Recorder
4x4" matte box/follow focus. Zeiss 'Contax' FF primes with Metabones 'Speed Booster'
Rode NTG-3/I-Rig XLR Phantom preamp
HDvideo4K.com

Re: Cineform front-end 1 week, 1 day ago #193079

  • David Rasberry
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Acrovid Intertake does give options to manually set timecode for export files or to derive it from the camera's realtime clock data if there is no TC in the file.
You can export clips with revised names and export subclips(segments) of a clip with user assigned names. It will batch process multiple clips or segments at a time too. Intertake can create half or quarter res proxies at the same time it exports the transcoded clips.

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Bracket above marks two segments imported from the same shot.

You can edit reel ID's in Lightworks when you import the clips.
Razz

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Last Edit: 1 week, 1 day ago by David Rasberry.

Re: Cineform front-end 1 week, 1 day ago #193084

  • Craig Marshall
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Thanks Raz, It looks like great software and I did test out their earlier version but most of these features are already available with Wayne Norton's various FFMPEG GUI. However, that's pretty much EOL now.

I'm not ready to push the button on more Paid product if a suitable workflow can be found within our existing arsenal.
Custom Haswell z87 i7 3.9Ghz 4770
System SSD, 16TB Internal RAID 0, Cache SSD
16GB DDR3, Thunderbolt, Nvidia GTX 970 G1 Maxwell GPU
Lightworks Pro with DNxHD license
Resolve 15 with OxygenTec ProPanel
X-Keys Pro 68 key USB Jog/Shuttle controller
2 x 24" HD GUI, 24" 10bit Rec.709 IPS Monitor
12G Decklink 4K SDI Pro>HD-Link Pro>Display Port
Sony 55" X9005B 4K Client Monitor
Sony Super 35 HD camera with Atomos ProRes Recorder
4x4" matte box/follow focus. Zeiss 'Contax' FF primes with Metabones 'Speed Booster'
Rode NTG-3/I-Rig XLR Phantom preamp
HDvideo4K.com
Last Edit: 1 week, 1 day ago by Craig Marshall.

Re: Cineform front-end 1 week, 1 day ago #193085

  • hugly
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Craig Marshall wrote:
For future 4K H264 edits, where precise frame accuracy is not required, I think a direct Lightworks ingest, followed by an Edit then an Export direct to Deliverable will suffice. At least with LW now reading my Decklink card, I can colour correct and Monitor to the same SDI 10bit precision as in Resolve.

That sounds quite reasonable.

There's a German saying: "A good horse does not jump higher than it has to"
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 1 week, 1 day ago by hugly.

Re: Cineform front-end 1 week, 1 day ago #193086

  • Craig Marshall
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Is there any way to Auto ripple TC using Search & Replace?


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I've used RWAV's S&R method to change the REEL ID so if there was any way to ripple TC into a continuous run, that would solve my issue and each clip could be exported individually and retain both ID and continuous TC.
Custom Haswell z87 i7 3.9Ghz 4770
System SSD, 16TB Internal RAID 0, Cache SSD
16GB DDR3, Thunderbolt, Nvidia GTX 970 G1 Maxwell GPU
Lightworks Pro with DNxHD license
Resolve 15 with OxygenTec ProPanel
X-Keys Pro 68 key USB Jog/Shuttle controller
2 x 24" HD GUI, 24" 10bit Rec.709 IPS Monitor
12G Decklink 4K SDI Pro>HD-Link Pro>Display Port
Sony 55" X9005B 4K Client Monitor
Sony Super 35 HD camera with Atomos ProRes Recorder
4x4" matte box/follow focus. Zeiss 'Contax' FF primes with Metabones 'Speed Booster'
Rode NTG-3/I-Rig XLR Phantom preamp
HDvideo4K.com
Last Edit: 1 week, 1 day ago by Craig Marshall.

Re: Cineform front-end 1 week, 1 day ago #193088

  • hugly
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I would think on clips you can search for "Start Time", "End Time" and "Duration", but you can't replace any of them. However there was (is?) a database which might allow it.
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Re: Cineform front-end 1 week, 1 day ago #193089

  • hugly
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Still I'm pretty unsure whether reel-id and timecode metadata for AAF interchange with Resolve are mandatory, as long as the file names are unique. Have you tried what we've discussed earlier?
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 1 week, 1 day ago by hugly.

Re: Cineform front-end 1 week, 1 day ago #193090

  • RWAV
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Generally one requires two identifiers normally Reel and T/C. Given the rules Reel is a single acquisition device for a single 24 hour period those become unique identifiers.

Current practice of using file name as reel ID in effect creates as many reels as file names - cumbersome and at times incompatible with existing interchange format rules - but also unique identifiers - with very modest levels of carefulness.

Not sure what level of interchange CM requires for this particular challenge - nor if down-the-track reference to original camera cards is required - but perhaps resolve accommodates both styles of 'unique' thee are certainly strategies within LW capable of referencing the original T/C of the clips.

Over time the edit-ability of LW databases has been restricted - on Alacrity there was a 'make editable' database switch which, as I recall, opened just about everything

Thee used to be a 3rd party 'LW Assistant' logging package (suspect I may have about last existing specimen) - that was able to 'ripple' T/C based on duration and could produce LW format databases - again from memory those were able to be retrofitted to LW Galleries of shots

Of course much of that was intrinsically LW specific and did not flow on to exported or rendered material.

Again not completely clear how much of this is permitted be LW specific and how much must interchange and with what in CM's workflow
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Re: Cineform front-end 1 week, 1 day ago #193092

  • David Rasberry
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Craig Marshall wrote:
Thanks Raz, It looks like great software and I did test out their earlier version but most of these features are already available with Wayne Norton's various FFMPEG GUI. However, that's pretty much EOL now.

I'm not ready to push the button on more Paid product if a suitable workflow can be found within our existing arsenal.


I mostly work with raw footage, so Resolve is usually the first step for me. I have used Intertake and its predecessors to transcode everything else to a cineform DI master for editing. Used Wayne’s utilities too, but Intertake is such an easy and efficient time saver that it has proven well worth the cost for me.
Resolve has become so bloated with the inclusion of Fairlight and Fusion I would drop it if there were a reasonable alternative for high quality raw processing. I’m only using it for color grading and transcoding raw footage without sound for now.
Razz

Digital Bolex 2k Cinema DNG raw camera
Canon GL2 DV camcorder
iPAD Mini 3 Iographer rig

Workstation: Intel i7-4770k, Asrock Z87 Thunderbolt 2 MB, 16GB 1866 DDR3 ram,
2TB Seagate Hybrid system drive, 2TB Seagate NAS media drive, E-sata III hot swap drive bay, Nvidia GTX760 2GB GPU
Lightworks kybrd. Shuttlepro v2
Win10 Pro 64bit, Lightworks 14.0 64bit

Mobile Workstation: MSI GTX72 Dominator
Intel i7-6700HQ 2.7GHz Win10 64bit
16GB DDR4 ram, 500GB M.2 SSD
Nvidia GTX970 3GB GPU
USB3, USB3.1-C, Thunderbolt 3 ports
Shuttlepro2 Win10 64bit LW 14.0 64 bit

Re: Cineform front-end 2 days, 12 hours ago #193262

  • Craig Marshall
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I know this is starting to drift Off Topic but I found a solution to my problem.

I have been supplied with various high quality DJI drone pictures - some in HD and some in 4K but all files are 8bit H264 4:2:0 29.97 fps. I wanted to do some pre-prep before the Lightworks Edit and Grade/Finish in DaVinci Resolve so here is my workflow:

1) As my project is for 25fps 1920x1080 Digital Projection, I created a 30P Project in Lightworks then brought all the drone images into various Bins, made a Sequence from each Bin then cut out the rubbish, leaving only the usable portion with 'handles' front and back.

2) I next Exported each edited Sequence as an uncompressed .MOV at 30P

3) Each 30P uncompressed clip was brought into my Batch Transcoder which applied a high quality 30fps to 25fps speed change, a 4K to HD re-scale and embedded both Sequential Timecode and a unique Reel ID all in the same pass, outputting each Sequence as 10bit HD ProRes 4:4:4 file.

4) This timecoded and Reel ID ProRes 444 was then edited in Lightworks with AAF export followed by a Conform to Resolve using the original ProRes 444 (no 'round tripping') then finally, an uncompressed Master Export from Resolve.

5) the final Export now looks significantly better than the original DJI 8bit H264.
Custom Haswell z87 i7 3.9Ghz 4770
System SSD, 16TB Internal RAID 0, Cache SSD
16GB DDR3, Thunderbolt, Nvidia GTX 970 G1 Maxwell GPU
Lightworks Pro with DNxHD license
Resolve 15 with OxygenTec ProPanel
X-Keys Pro 68 key USB Jog/Shuttle controller
2 x 24" HD GUI, 24" 10bit Rec.709 IPS Monitor
12G Decklink 4K SDI Pro>HD-Link Pro>Display Port
Sony 55" X9005B 4K Client Monitor
Sony Super 35 HD camera with Atomos ProRes Recorder
4x4" matte box/follow focus. Zeiss 'Contax' FF primes with Metabones 'Speed Booster'
Rode NTG-3/I-Rig XLR Phantom preamp
HDvideo4K.com
Last Edit: 2 days, 12 hours ago by Craig Marshall.

Re: Cineform front-end 2 days, 11 hours ago #193264

  • RWAV
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An external transcoder is useful.
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HP Z800 Workstation

Re: Cineform front-end 2 days, 4 hours ago #193283

  • hugly
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Indeed.
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