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TOPIC: Lightworks 14.5 PRO nearly unusable...freezing often, sometimes crashes my system.

Lightworks 14.5 PRO nearly unusable...freezing often, sometimes crashes my system. 8 months ago #194770

  • thesunray
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I use Lightworks rarely so this is my first time since 14.5 came out -- previously, Lightworks on my system was slow to start, and a bit slow when the "Import" files screen was on, but overall, it was usable: playback was smooth, the editing process was responsive...everything worked. I believe I had a few quirks here and there but basically, I loved it so much I felt like getting PRO was something I couldn't pass up.

Now, in 14.5, I'm experiencing all sorts of frustrating errors and hoping there's something I can do in the settings or configuration side to make this stop.

Apropos details about my system:

Intel i7 CPU 860 @ 2.80GHz
16GB System Ram
GeForce GTX 570 Nvidia card (1280MB, I believe?)
Lubuntu LTS 18.04

One question is whether this is a powerful enough system for what I'm doing (just got a drone, was hoping to edit some 4K video it took, but this seems to happen even if I've converted the video to 1080.) Should I bite the bullet and get a different system? (I've maxed out the memory on this one.)

I believe I'm still using the Nouveau driver, which earlier I tried to switch to Nvidia and it didn't work at all -- could this be the issue? Should I try again to use the native Nvidia driver?

Anything else I can check or adjust (caching, maybe?) so that this gets smoother? It will freeze for minutes at a time. And twice in one night it froze my system solid...had to do a hard reboot. Ugh!

Any help or suggestions would be fantastic. I really love Lightworks, hope to see this fixed soon!

Re: Lightworks 14.5 PRO nearly unusable...freezing often, sometimes crashes my system. 8 months ago #194772

  • hugly
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Hello,

When comparing video editing with tractor pulling, the computer is the tractor and the video material the load.

Now that we know the 'tractor', some information about the load would help, a Mediainfo report of your footage, maybe?
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 8 months ago by hugly.

Re: Lightworks 14.5 PRO nearly unusable...freezing often, sometimes crashes my system. 8 months ago #194777

  • thesunray
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Hoping this is useful: here's a Mediainfo dump. This is from my new Mavic Air drone (shooting 4K) but I've since converted to 1080p (second file below), and have the same issues. I even pulled up old projects that used to work fine, and they're also having the same trouble -- so my (uneducated!) guess is that it's the tractor, not the load. (Love that analogy! Perfect!!!)

Really appreciate your taking the time to write, hoping the below is useful:


General
Complete name : /media/myhomedir/DJI_0022.MP4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size : 3.50 GiB
Duration : 4 min 48 s
Overall bit rate : 104 Mb/s
Writing application : Lavf56.15.102

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L5.1
Format settings : CABAC / 1 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=44
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 4 min 48 s
Bit rate : 104 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.524
Stream size : 3.50 GiB (100%)


Here's the 1080p sample output of one of those files converted (and even converted, it also has the same issues):

General
Complete name : /home/myhomedir/DJI_0009.m4v
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID : mp42 (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size : 390 MiB
Duration : 4 min 48 s
Overall bit rate : 11.3 Mb/s
Movie name : DJI_0009
Encoded date : UTC 2019-03-18 12:51:40
Tagged date : UTC 2019-03-18 12:51:40
Writing application : HandBrake 1.1.0 2018042400

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L4
Format settings : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 4 min 48 s
Bit rate : 11.3 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Variable
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Minimum frame rate : 23.974 FPS
Maximum frame rate : 23.981 FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.228
Stream size : 390 MiB (100%)
Writing library : x264 core 152 r2854 e9a5903
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=2 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0x111 / me=hex / subme=6 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=2 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=1 / keyint=240 / keyint_min=24 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=30 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=22.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=20000 / vbv_bufsize=25000 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=none / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Encoded date : UTC 2019-03-18 12:51:40
Tagged date : UTC 2019-03-18 12:51:40
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Re: Lightworks 14.5 PRO nearly unusable...freezing often, sometimes crashes my system. 8 months ago #194783

  • hugly
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Thank you.

Probably you are aware that long GOP h.264/MP4 is a very demanding codec. To show one single frame, software has to buffer and decode a Group Of Pictures, because the frames depend on each other. That's called 'interframe compression'. In the case of your 2160p24 DJI recording th GOP is 44 and x264 metadata show 240 frames for the file transcoded with Handbrake. That's ok when streaming, but not so good for performance when editing.

Now, I wonder how it could be that 1080p24 with a bitrate of 11.3 Mbps shows the same bad performance as 2160p24 at 104 Mbps?
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 8 months ago by hugly.

Re: Lightworks 14.5 PRO nearly unusable...freezing often, sometimes crashes my system. 8 months ago #194784

  • thesunray
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Thank you, @hugly! I appreciate your note, and no, I'm really a very basic user and don't do a lot with video...at least not yet.

My biggest "clue" that it's not the video itself, despite the "loads" I detailed above, is that this same issue occurs with old files that I didn't have any problems with before.

The logic being that whatever the load prior, if the "tractor" could pull it fine before, and now the "tractor" stutters, freezes, and has issues...yet the load is the same as before, then the issue resides in the tractor. Or am I missing something?

Admittedly, the 4K video (it's incredible to watch!) is big...what is a good way to convert that to something easier for Lightworks to handle? Right now I don't NEED 4K, so I'm fine (in a pinch) not even recording in it. 1080p is fine?

But for these 4K files, can I use Handbrake to convert to something "good"? What would be "good"?

For the projects I used to work on just fine, why would they also now be freezing and have spotty playback issues?

Thank you for any/all help.

Re: Lightworks 14.5 PRO nearly unusable...freezing often, sometimes crashes my system. 8 months ago #194786

  • briandrys
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Using the internal proxy editing would be the best way. Lightworks will then automatically use the source video for the final export.

Re: Lightworks 14.5 PRO nearly unusable...freezing often, sometimes crashes my system. 8 months ago #194787

  • hugly
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I can't say why it appears on your system that V14.5 doesn't perform as well as V14.0 did. From what I see here V14.5 performs better and is more robust, even with critical material.

The best medicine Lightworks provides against performance problems is the internal proxy workflow.
I'd suggest giving it a try.

Proxies are files of low resolution and bitrate (read: high performance). Once created from the original material and enabled, they are used for editing. On export the original material is used automatically for best possible quality.

To enable proxy editing, set 'Project.Video.Output.Playback media quality' to 'Lowest available' (set and forget).
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Select proxy format prior to creating proxies, 'h.264-480-medium' is a good format to start with.

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To create proxies, in 'Project Contents' select one or more clips and from 'Bin Commands' execute 'Media.Make proxies'.

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The orange progress bar upper left hand side indicates tasks in progress. Wait until proxy creation has finished and see how that works for you.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 8 months ago by hugly.

Re: Lightworks 14.5 PRO nearly unusable...freezing often, sometimes crashes my system. 8 months ago #194790

  • thesunray
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Great, trying this! Thank you, will see if it improves performance!

Re: Lightworks 14.5 PRO nearly unusable...freezing often, sometimes crashes my system. 8 months ago #194815

  • thesunray
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This made a really big difference, definitely now the video editing is smooth and I only had one time when it froze (but it recovered, not crashing the system).

This helps a LOT.

So the workflow in the future will be to immediately import the clips and then proxy them, I assume? Is there no way to do this automatically or set it up as a default?

(Knowing me, I'll forget to do it.)

Still, this finally seems USABLE now, and I really appreciate your all offering the help!

Re: Lightworks 14.5 PRO nearly unusable...freezing often, sometimes crashes my system. 8 months ago #194817

  • hugly
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There's no automatic to create proxies, but no doubt, the system performance will remind you

I'm still wondering why the file converted and downscaled to 1080p doesn't work properly. Would you mind making a test with a customized Handbrake preset? I would post it as attachment.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 8 months ago by hugly.

Re: Lightworks 14.5 PRO nearly unusable...freezing often, sometimes crashes my system. 8 months ago #194818

  • thesunray
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I'd rather do the settings myself rather than download something, is there a simple way for you to describe the settings? (Sorry, I know that might mean more work at your end?)

Perhaps one of the preset options is "close" and I could select that?

Re: Lightworks 14.5 PRO nearly unusable...freezing often, sometimes crashes my system. 8 months ago #194820

  • hugly
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Yes.

With most recent Handbrake 1.2.2, from 'Video' tab start with preset 'Production.Standard', set 'Constant Quality RF' to '20', 'Encoder Tune' to 'Film' and replace the line in 'Extra Options' with this line 'keyint=24:min-keyint=1:ref=1:bframes=0'. From 'Dimensions' tab set 'Width'/'Height' to '1920/1080'. Optionally, from 'Audio' tab, set 'Bitrate' to '160'.

Tell what you see.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 8 months ago by hugly.

Re: Lightworks 14.5 PRO nearly unusable...freezing often, sometimes crashes my system. 8 months ago #194827

  • thesunray
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@hugly, thank you again -- yes, this preset version certainly works more smoothly. I did three tests:

The original 4K file freezes in playback about every 5 seconds. Just stops...then skips to the new spot in the reel.

The previous file I was using, a 280MB reduced version, skips about ever 10 seconds.

This new file using the preset values you suggested above does not appear to skip at all.

So this is very, very good.

I am curious, would nearly everyone out there always use proxies when working with 4K videos? Is that just how it's done?

And with my system, if I were to upgrade the ram or just get a new 64GB system, would I see lots of pep where now (with 16GB) it's chugging along? Or are there other factors to consider?

Thank you very much. Huge help to know HOW to work with this...a new workflow seems to have fixed most of my issues. At least as far as I can tell from this short test!

Re: Lightworks 14.5 PRO nearly unusable...freezing often, sometimes crashes my system. 8 months ago #194828

  • lghtwrks
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not sure, but selecting transcode to cineform in lwks should do the job.
s

Re: Lightworks 14.5 PRO nearly unusable...freezing often, sometimes crashes my system. 8 months ago #194830

  • hugly
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lghtwrks wrote:
not sure, but selecting transcode to cineform in lwks should do the job.
s

Lightworks doesn't support 4K with import method Transcode, currently. It's announced for next release. I won't use it for sure with 4K, due to resulting insane file sizes, even with Cineform.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
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