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TOPIC: Game / screen capture, OBS, variable frame rate import and Lightworks - USE OBS STUDIO!

Re: Game screen capture, OBS, variable frame rate import and Lightworks - USE OBS STUDIO! 3 years, 7 months ago #108395

  • donkpow
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That would indicate the problem is not in the container format. You will have to do a transcode. That involves decoding and encoding to the new file. If ffmpeg can fix the error, it will.
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Re: Game screen capture, OBS, variable frame rate import and Lightworks - USE OBS STUDIO! 3 years, 7 months ago #108396

  • jmoore2
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donkpow wrote:
That would indicate the problem is not in the container format. You will have to do a transcode. That involves decoding and encoding to the new file. If ffmpeg can fix the error, it will.


Handbrake has managed to encode beyond 4 minutes and 50 seconds no problem, this said I have managed to edit the file in Lightworks by linking in the file rather than transcoding it.

Linking in wasn't working before as I was having issues due to CrossFireX, I think!

Either way I have my full file now.

Just to confirm, the OBS Studio recording does show a constant FPS so I think I have proved you wrong

donkpow wrote:
Please prove me wrong.


Which is awesome, since in theory OBS Studio should have far less issues with editing as it is not VFR?

Many thanks for the help!
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Re: Game screen capture, OBS, variable frame rate import and Lightworks - USE OBS STUDIO! 3 years, 7 months ago #108398

  • donkpow
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Just to confirm, the OBS Studio recording does show a constant FPS so I think I have proved you wrong.
That you have, sir.

One of the files was CFR, the other was not. A word of caution. I am still not convinced all computers will produce a CFR source from OBS Studio. If you command OBSS to CFR but the computer is not up to the task, will it still produce a file that is CFR? Or, will it produce a file that is VFR but says it is CFR in MediaInfo?
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Re: Game screen capture, OBS, variable frame rate import and Lightworks - USE OBS STUDIO! 3 years, 7 months ago #108399

  • jmoore2
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All very good questions!

I can't easily test that. I will add however, that this encoding has been done using VCE on my GPU so other people using OBS to record using a non VCE method (i.e. CPU) with CFR may get something different.

I will test this now using x264 on the CPU instead.
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Re: Game screen capture, OBS, variable frame rate import and Lightworks - USE OBS STUDIO! 3 years, 7 months ago #108400

  • jmoore2
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jmoore2 wrote:
All very good questions!

I can't easily test that. I will add however, that this encoding has been done using VCE on my GPU so other people using OBS to record using a non VCE method (i.e. CPU) with CFR may get something different.

I will test this now using x264 on the CPU instead.


FYI: There is an option to enable variable frame rate in the options I am leaving unticked (obviously.)

OBS Studio using Standard Mode CBR "faster" x264 "main" CPU encoding shows the following:

Mediainfo:

General
Complete name                            : F:\Video Work Area\ffmpeg-20160212-git-6973846-win64-static\bin\2016-02-13_01-08-42.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size                                : 114 MiB
Duration                                 : 2mn 58s
Overall bit rate                         : 5 351 Kbps
Writing application                      : Lavf57.14.100

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : Main@L4.2
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 4 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 2mn 58s
Bit rate                                 : 5 000 Kbps
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 60.000 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.040
Stream size                              : 107 MiB (94%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 148 r2638 7599210
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=1 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0x111 / me=hex / subme=2 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=4 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=10 / rc=cbr / mbtree=1 / bitrate=5000 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=5000 / vbv_bufsize=5000 / nal_hrd=none / filler=1 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00

Audio #1
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 40
Duration                                 : 2mn 58s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 164 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 KHz
Frame rate                               : 43.066 fps (1024 spf)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 3.49 MiB (3%)
Title                                    : Track1
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1

Audio #2
ID                                       : 3
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 40
Duration                                 : 2mn 58s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 164 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 KHz
Frame rate                               : 43.066 fps (1024 spf)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 3.49 MiB (3%)
Title                                    : Track2
Default                                  : No
Alternate group                          : 1


Processed FFProbe file below:

[STREAM]
index=0
codec_name=h264
codec_long_name=H.264 / AVC / MPEG-4 AVC / MPEG-4 part 10
profile=Main
codec_type=video
codec_time_base=1/120
codec_tag_string=avc1
codec_tag=0x31637661
width=1920
height=1080
coded_width=1920
coded_height=1088
has_b_frames=2
sample_aspect_ratio=0:1
display_aspect_ratio=0:1
pix_fmt=yuv420p
level=42
color_range=N/A
color_space=unknown
color_transfer=unknown
color_primaries=unknown
chroma_location=left
timecode=N/A
refs=4
is_avc=true
nal_length_size=4
id=N/A
r_frame_rate=60/1
avg_frame_rate=60/1
time_base=1/15360
start_pts=507
start_time=0.033008
duration_ts=2746368
duration=178.800000
bit_rate=5006105
max_bit_rate=N/A
bits_per_raw_sample=8
nb_frames=10728
nb_read_frames=10728
nb_read_packets=N/A
DISPOSITION:default=1
DISPOSITION:dub=0
DISPOSITION:original=0
DISPOSITION:comment=0
DISPOSITION:lyrics=0
DISPOSITION:karaoke=0
DISPOSITION:forced=0
DISPOSITION:hearing_impaired=0
DISPOSITION:visual_impaired=0
DISPOSITION:clean_effects=0
DISPOSITION:attached_pic=0
TAG:language=und
TAG:handler_name=VideoHandler
[/STREAM]


Both FFProbe and mediainfo indicate constant frame rate. Would seem to indicate CBR is giving CFR under GPU and CPU encoding then!
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Last Edit: 3 years, 7 months ago by jmoore2.
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Re: Game screen capture, OBS, variable frame rate import and Lightworks - USE OBS STUDIO! 3 years, 7 months ago #108401

  • donkpow
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I agree.

I tried the NVENC on my system. Basically unloading encode of the capture to the video card. Presets. The uncompressed H.264 NVENC encode had errors so I reverted to cpu encoding. I haven't gotten around to trying the new version. Development stopped on OBS when the effort switched to the multi-platform version. I'll get around to it one of these days.
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Re: Game screen capture, OBS, variable frame rate import and Lightworks - USE OBS STUDIO! 3 years, 7 months ago #108403

  • jmoore2
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Just wanted to check if overloading would cause a drop to VFR, short answer is no!

Overloaded the CPU with the "slower" mode, video is effectively frozen with a few small sections actually playing.

FYI: There is an option to enable variable frame rate in the options I am leaving unticked (obviously.)

OBS Studio using CBR Standard Mode "slower" x264 "main" CPU encoding shows the following:

Mediainfo:

General
Complete name                            : F:\Video Work Area\ffmpeg-20160212-git-6973846-win64-static\bin\2016-02-13_01-26-25.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size                                : 40.1 MiB
Duration                                 : 1mn 3s
Overall bit rate                         : 5 337 Kbps
Writing application                      : Lavf57.14.100

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : Main@L5
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 8 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 1mn 3s
Bit rate                                 : 5 000 Kbps
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 60.000 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.040
Stream size                              : 37.5 MiB (94%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 148 r2638 7599210
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=8 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0x131 / me=umh / subme=9 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=60 / rc=cbr / mbtree=1 / bitrate=5000 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=5000 / vbv_bufsize=5000 / nal_hrd=none / filler=1 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00

Audio #1
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 40
Duration                                 : 1mn 2s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 163 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 KHz
Frame rate                               : 43.066 fps (1024 spf)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 1.22 MiB (3%)
Title                                    : Track1
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1

Audio #2
ID                                       : 3
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 40
Duration                                 : 1mn 2s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 163 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 KHz
Frame rate                               : 43.066 fps (1024 spf)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 1.22 MiB (3%)
Title                                    : Track2
Default                                  : No
Alternate group                          : 1



Processed FFProbe file below:

[STREAM]
index=0
codec_name=h264
codec_long_name=H.264 / AVC / MPEG-4 AVC / MPEG-4 part 10
profile=Main
codec_type=video
codec_time_base=1/120
codec_tag_string=avc1
codec_tag=0x31637661
width=1920
height=1080
coded_width=1920
coded_height=1088
has_b_frames=2
sample_aspect_ratio=0:1
display_aspect_ratio=0:1
pix_fmt=yuv420p
level=50
color_range=N/A
color_space=unknown
color_transfer=unknown
color_primaries=unknown
chroma_location=left
timecode=N/A
refs=8
is_avc=true
nal_length_size=4
id=N/A
r_frame_rate=60/1
avg_frame_rate=60/1
time_base=1/15360
start_pts=507
start_time=0.033008
duration_ts=967680
duration=63.000000
bit_rate=4992448
max_bit_rate=N/A
bits_per_raw_sample=8
nb_frames=3780
nb_read_frames=3780
nb_read_packets=N/A
DISPOSITION:default=1
DISPOSITION:dub=0
DISPOSITION:original=0
DISPOSITION:comment=0
DISPOSITION:lyrics=0
DISPOSITION:karaoke=0
DISPOSITION:forced=0
DISPOSITION:hearing_impaired=0
DISPOSITION:visual_impaired=0
DISPOSITION:clean_effects=0
DISPOSITION:attached_pic=0
TAG:language=und
TAG:handler_name=VideoHandler
[/STREAM]


Both FFProbe and mediainfo indicate constant frame rate. Would seem to indicate CBR is giving CFR even under very heavy overloaded CPU encoding!
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Last Edit: 3 years, 7 months ago by jmoore2.
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Re: Game screen capture, OBS, variable frame rate import and Lightworks - USE OBS STUDIO! 3 years, 7 months ago #108404

  • donkpow
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Yes, I see. So what you're saying is that frames are duplicated so that CFR can be maintained?

FWIW, I don't use CBR. CBR is good for streaming.
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Re: Game screen capture, OBS, variable frame rate import and Lightworks - USE OBS STUDIO! 3 years, 7 months ago #108405

  • jmoore2
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It certainly appears to be frame duplication to maintain CFR (I assume from watching VLC, I haven't checked frame by frame.)

Either way very encouraging. I believe that OBS Studio does support NVENC and Quicksync, but I can't test either of those as I lack the equipment

I am mainly focusing on CBR since typically I and others would be streaming the video to twitch and recording it at the same time.

This said I am fairly confident that VBR with CFR will work very nicely (assuming it does stick to CFR.) I'm testing this now.
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Re: Game screen capture, OBS, variable frame rate import and Lightworks - USE OBS STUDIO! 3 years, 7 months ago #108407

  • donkpow
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Interesting. If it is maintaining CFR, that will facilitate workflow for those that want to transcode or import directly to Lightworks. They may not appreciate the apparent stall in the stream. Many will see duplicated frames in the editor and be disappointed.

So you capture in CBR, edit and export from Lightworks, and then stream? Have you checked the bitrate on the exported files?

You can get bit rate data from ffprobe, too. Actually, you can get tons of information and put it in a spreadsheet. Then make a graph or whatever. I can't remember but I think you save the data in CSV format. I'll have to check that to see.
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Re: Game screen capture, OBS, variable frame rate import and Lightworks - USE OBS STUDIO! 3 years, 7 months ago #108408

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FYI: There is an option to enable variable frame rate in the options I am leaving unticked (obviously.)

OBS Studio using VBR 5000kbit Standard Mode x264 "high" GPU (VCE) encoding shows the following:

Mediainfo:

General
Complete name                            : F:\Video Work Area\2016-02-13_01-57-36.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size                                : 42.6 MiB
Duration                                 : 1mn 5s
Overall bit rate                         : 5 493 Kbps
Writing application                      : Lavf57.14.100

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 4 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 1mn 5s
Bit rate                                 : 5 151 Kbps
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 60.000 fps
Standard                                 : Component
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.041
Stream size                              : 40.0 MiB (94%)
Color range                              : Limited

Audio #1
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 40
Duration                                 : 1mn 5s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 164 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 KHz
Frame rate                               : 43.066 fps (1024 spf)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 1.27 MiB (3%)
Title                                    : Track1
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1

Audio #2
ID                                       : 3
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 40
Duration                                 : 1mn 5s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 164 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 KHz
Frame rate                               : 43.066 fps (1024 spf)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 1.27 MiB (3%)
Title                                    : Track2
Default                                  : No
Alternate group                          : 1


Processed FFProbe file below:

[STREAM]
index=0
codec_name=h264
codec_long_name=H.264 / AVC / MPEG-4 AVC / MPEG-4 part 10
profile=High
codec_type=video
codec_time_base=1/120
codec_tag_string=avc1
codec_tag=0x31637661
width=1920
height=1080
coded_width=1920
coded_height=1088
has_b_frames=1
sample_aspect_ratio=1:1
display_aspect_ratio=16:9
pix_fmt=yuv420p
level=40
color_range=tv
color_space=unknown
color_transfer=unknown
color_primaries=unknown
chroma_location=left
timecode=N/A
refs=4
is_avc=true
nal_length_size=4
id=N/A
r_frame_rate=60/1
avg_frame_rate=60/1
time_base=1/15360
start_pts=0
start_time=0.000000
duration_ts=999424
duration=65.066667
bit_rate=5150742
max_bit_rate=N/A
bits_per_raw_sample=8
nb_frames=3904
nb_read_frames=3904
nb_read_packets=N/A
DISPOSITION:default=1
DISPOSITION:dub=0
DISPOSITION:original=0
DISPOSITION:comment=0
DISPOSITION:lyrics=0
DISPOSITION:karaoke=0
DISPOSITION:forced=0
DISPOSITION:hearing_impaired=0
DISPOSITION:visual_impaired=0
DISPOSITION:clean_effects=0
DISPOSITION:attached_pic=0
TAG:language=und
TAG:handler_name=VideoHandler
[/STREAM]


Both FFProbe and mediainfo indicate a constant frame rate with VBR, which is excellent for anyone wanting to record in high quality for minimum file size.

This is a high quality encode of 1080p at 60 FPS footage (I would say near as damnit close to source) at 43 megabytes for a minute. I would upload it for people to see but it's Battlestar Galactica and copyright.
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Re: Game screen capture, OBS, variable frame rate import and Lightworks - USE OBS STUDIO! 3 years, 7 months ago #108409

  • jmoore2
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donkpow wrote:
Interesting. If it is maintaining CFR, that will facilitate workflow for those that want to transcode or import directly to Lightworks. They may not appreciate the apparent stall in the stream. Many will see duplicated frames in the editor and be disappointed.

So you capture in CBR, edit and export from Lightworks, and then stream? Have you checked the bitrate on the exported files?

You can get bit rate data from ffprobe, too. Actually, you can get tons of information and put it in a spreadsheet. Then make a graph or whatever. I can't remember but I think you save the data in CSV format. I'll have to check that to see.


With respect to LW import and edit, the only stall / duplicated frames you would get is if you overloaded the CPU or GPU when encoding the stream / recording.

With OBS Studio, I was under the impression that recording would operate at the same settings as the stream if streaming (which is limited to 3600 kbit on twitch for example) and since streaming is almost always prefered as CBR you'd be recording in CBR by virtue of streaming in it.

I don't capture first, process with lightworks, then stream.

I do the above ^ stream first with OBS Studio (which should record at the same settings as the stream), then import the recorded stream, edit, re-encode then upload to youtube.
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Re: Game screen capture, OBS, variable frame rate import and Lightworks - USE OBS STUDIO! 3 years, 7 months ago #108410

  • donkpow
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Oh, I see. I save to file using ultrafast 30 fps, setting bitrate to whatever maximum. The file always gets transcoded before import to the editor. Normally the file needs to be conformed to 29.97 fps. I have never streamed. I don't do long captures, either.
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Re: Game screen capture, OBS, variable frame rate import and Lightworks - USE OBS STUDIO! 3 years, 7 months ago #108411

  • jmoore2
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  • 3 years, 7 months ago
donkpow wrote:
Oh, I see. I save to file using ultrafast 30 fps, setting bitrate to whatever maximum. The file always gets transcoded before import to the editor. Normally the file needs to be conformed to 29.97 fps. I have never streamed. I don't do long captures, either.


Strictly speaking, I believe its not technically impossible from stream services to take VBR but you start running into a trade off with what the say they want, what they will accept and ultimately what your networking is willing to put up with.

Personally I think CBR isn't really required, I think it just makes their networking easier since it doesn't vary like VBR. Swing and roundabouts though, it means their total bandwidth usage rises.
CPU: AMD FX 8350 Processor - Black Edition @ 4.8Ghz / System Memory: 16 GB DDR3 / System Drive: 128 GB SSD / Secondary Drive: 500 GB SSD / Storage RAID0: 500GB / External Storage: 4TB / GPUs: 2x AMD R9 290 / OS: Windows 10 64 bit / Lightworks Pro 12.6.0
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Re: Game screen capture, OBS, variable frame rate import and Lightworks - USE OBS STUDIO! 3 years, 7 months ago #108412

  • jmoore2
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  • 3 years, 7 months ago
Additional Note: Lightworks REALLY DOES NOT LIKE VBR extremely high bitrate? files linked for editing. Highly recommend transcoding any VBR high bitrate file.

It has to actively transcode the file when linked by the looks of things and is very sluggish and cannot play the file even on my rig.
CPU: AMD FX 8350 Processor - Black Edition @ 4.8Ghz / System Memory: 16 GB DDR3 / System Drive: 128 GB SSD / Secondary Drive: 500 GB SSD / Storage RAID0: 500GB / External Storage: 4TB / GPUs: 2x AMD R9 290 / OS: Windows 10 64 bit / Lightworks Pro 12.6.0
Last Edit: 3 years, 7 months ago by jmoore2.
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