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TOPIC: Lightworks Editing-PC

Re: Lightworks Editing-PC 10 months, 1 week ago #198314

  • m.bauer588
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Just one more question to clearify some myths:

I hear that Intel-CPUs are much better for editing videos. And what I see the most prof. Workstations for editing use i7 Extremes, i9 or even Xeons.

Based on benchmarks the i5-8400 (6C/6T) and Ryzen 2700 (8C/16T) are even in performance: cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-8400-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-2700/3939vs3957

  1. So is there a benefit of having one over another?
  2. Are video editing workloads really heavy optimized for Intel?
  3. Which one would you choose for 1080p work?

Re: Lightworks Editing-PC 10 months, 1 week ago #198321

  • hugly
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m.bauer588 wrote:
I hear that Intel-CPUs are much better for editing videos. And what I see the most prof. Workstations for editing use i7 Extremes, i9 or even Xeons.

It needs a very high flight level for observation to come to such a conclusion. Where is it from?

It's true that Intel workstations are frequently used for video editing, but that's caused by the fact that Intel (and NVidia) dominates, by far, the workstation market.

However, I switched from an Intel i7 2600 quad core to an AMD Ryzen 1920x with 12 physical cores and the performance boost with Lightworks isn't as high as expected, but I think that's not caused by the manufacturer label, but more likely by not so good multicore support of the software and in particular by bottlenecks on the PCI bus when transferring data from the CPU to the GPU and back. That's something others have reported from Xeons as well.
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Last Edit: 10 months, 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: Lightworks Editing-PC 10 months, 1 week ago #198323

  • m.bauer588
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As i also use Resolve for some tasks I asked in a german Forum if the specs meet the requirements of Resolve as well.

And there was a few Users complaining that Ryzen is buggy, laggy, has f***ed up SSE or whatever technique and no professional never would use a AMD CPU for editing.

It seems to me like crab fanboys usually say but as I am just a user and I don't care about the things happen under the hood as long as I can work good with the system I wanted to know what is True.

If you compare a 8C/16T Intel CPU like i9-9900K which cost more then 2x the price of a Ryzen 2700 obviously the i9 has to perform better. So I was just curious what happend when you compare same Benchmark-perfocmance and pricepoint what would be in that case.

So I come up with i5-8400 (6C/6T) vs. Ryzen 2700 (8C/16T)
Last Edit: 10 months, 1 week ago by m.bauer588.

Re: Lightworks Editing-PC 10 months, 1 week ago #198325

  • hugly
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m.bauer588 wrote:
So I come up with i5-8400 (6C/6T) vs. Ryzen 2700 (8C/16T)

I think nobody here or on Blackmagic forums will be able to answer this question based on hard facts and, since the AMD is an 8-core and the Intel a 6-core processor the benchmark above compares apples with pairs. Personally, I would tend to say, based on what I see here, this 6-core will beat the 8-core (with Lightworks) but, that's just guessing.

In practice, the highest impact to performance has the video codec used. Try the same piece of HD video in h2.64 and Cineform or DNxHD side by side and you'll see the difference.
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Last Edit: 10 months, 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: Lightworks Editing-PC 10 months, 1 week ago #198356

  • m.bauer588
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Thanks. I was curious but not curious enough to buy a 2nd CPU and motherboard just to test that
Last Edit: 10 months, 1 week ago by m.bauer588.

Re: Lightworks Editing-PC 10 months ago #198845

  • G0bble
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m.bauer588 wrote:
Just one more question to clearify some myths:

I hear that Intel-CPUs are much better for editing videos. And what I see the most prof. Workstations for editing use i7 Extremes, i9 or even Xeons.

Based on benchmarks the i5-8400 (6C/6T) and Ryzen 2700 (8C/16T) are even in performance: cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-8400-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-2700/3939vs3957



dont forget to check out the new Ryzen 3600 - for a price to performance you get better bang for the buck!
[url=https://www.techspot.com/news/80328-ryzen-5-3600-annihilates-2600-leaked-benchmarks.html[/url]

G
Last Edit: 10 months ago by G0bble.

Re: Lightworks Editing-PC 10 months ago #198848

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m.bauer588 wrote:
what I see the most prof. Workstations for editing use i7 Extremes, i9 or even Xeons.

Not a myth - true. If you're looking at the Xeon end of the market a Ryzen really doesn't match it.

Re: Lightworks Editing-PC 10 months ago #198849

  • hugly
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Current Intel Xeon W-3175X vs. AMD Threadripper 2990WX

www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-xeon-w-3175x-vs-amd-threadripper-2990wx,38557.html
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Re: Lightworks Editing-PC 10 months ago #198850

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@ G0bble
Your link is not working.

m.bauer588 wrote:
Based on benchmarks the i5-8400 (6C/6T) and Ryzen 2700 (8C/16T) are even in performance: cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-8400-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-2700/3939vs3957


m.bauer588 wrote:
... So I was just curious what happend when you compare same Benchmark-perfocmance and pricepoint what would be in that case.

So I come up with i5-8400 (6C/6T) vs. Ryzen 2700 (8C/16T)

I wonder how the GPU built into the i5-8400 affects the price of the i5?
Because you are planning an external graphics card, the internal GPU would remain unused.
Mainly automatically translated
--------------------------------------------
Software: Lightworks 2020.1 & 14.5; || Windows 10, 64 Bit
Hardware: Intel i5-4440 (3,1 GHz); || shared RAM: 8 GB; || Intel HD Graphics 4600 (can use max. 2 GB of shared RAM)
Last Edit: 10 months ago by schrauber. Reason: bad translation

Re: Lightworks Editing-PC 10 months ago #198851

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jwrl wrote:
Not a myth - true. If you're looking at the Xeon end of the market a Ryzen really doesn't match it.


The question is which Xeon - if I look for a similiar Scaleable Silver/Gold with 8C/16T like Gold 6144 or Silver 4110 then it should not be a huge gap. Sure you can't compare them to 16, 18 or even 28-Core CPUs.

For the 4110 and 6144 I found Cinebench-results of 1200 - 1800 in the multicore benchmark and the Ryzen 2700 reach ca. 1600 and that's right in the middle. The X-version is de facto on par with the 6144. And sure - if you factor in the W-3175X then yes - this one can reach in cinebench over 8.000!

But you totally misunderstood the question - the question was has Intel an advantage for Video-Editing or why most ones use Intel?

What I found out was that some Applications can use the Intel-iGPU as well with so called QuickSync and some Applications like Premiere should be better optimized for Intel.

Is that true? And if yes - how much of a benefit does that mean?

And as Xeon's dont have a iGPU and they use slower ECC-Ram where is the benefit of them? More PCIE-lanes? Or just the higher core-count which consumer CPU's can't reach?
Last Edit: 10 months ago by m.bauer588.

Re: Lightworks Editing-PC 10 months ago #198852

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A few more specialized benchmarks, maybe:

www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Premiere-Pro-CC-2019-CPU-Roundup-Intel-vs-AMD-vs-Mac-1320/

Edit: Don't expect that the results shown there apply necessarily to other NLEs or to future releases of the same software. And, the high-end markets are still learning that AMD has arrived, but if budget doesn't matter, Intel is still first choice, however, for video editing not necessarily in Xeon architecture.
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Last Edit: 10 months ago by hugly.

Re: Lightworks Editing-PC 10 months ago #198855

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hugly wrote:
A few more specialized benchmarks, maybe:


... I know that and based on this results www.pugetsystems.com/pic_disp.php?id=52166 is the Ryzen 2700X between i7 and i9 on the timeline performance. So that Intel performs better on editing is looks more and more like a myth.

In Premiere-Land it's a bit of a mess - www.pugetsystems.com/pic_disp.php?id=52285 - with some codecs the i5 outperforms the 2700x and in some other cases the 2700x outperforms the i5. So it looks like there is some kind of optimisation at least in some cases towards Intel.

But I am not sure how that translates to Lightworks and how much difference a RX580 would make compared to the 2080Ti...

As I saw from other Videos on Youtube even with grading in Resolve a 1080Ti was far away from reaching 100% GPU-usage so i decided a slower GPU which get closer to the 100% usage with the same 8GB VRAM should be a price/performance winner.

I hope that bet work - if not I can return the GPU in the first 14 days and take a 2070 or Vega64.

If someone cares here I could test some grading and some effects till the realtime playback don't work anymore.
Last Edit: 10 months ago by m.bauer588.

Re: Lightworks Editing-PC 10 months ago #198856

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On complex pipelines, where all components are part of the process, the usage of a single component isn't a reliable indicator for overall performance.

You can't translate the benchmarks to Lightworks, nor any other NLE. The only chance to find out the real truth is running benchmarks constructed to cover the various aspects of video editing on fully equipped systems with Lightworks, as they did obviously with CC and other software.

What I can say from experience is, the 1920x (12 x 3,5 GHz) is not well supported with Lightworks, currently, an Intel i7 8700K (6 x 3.7 GHz) performs significantly better. But who knows, maybe we see some change on that with next release?
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Last Edit: 10 months ago by hugly.

Re: Lightworks Editing-PC 10 months ago #198857

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As I go for a R7200 i can do with my rig the test in Resolve and Lightworks and see after how much effects and settings the playback start dropping frames...

What I found online is a ton of "tutorials" for budget editing-rigs for 648$, 998$, ... but none of them show how they perform or public with how much fps they can play the footage after grading and some effects.

Re: Lightworks Editing-PC 10 months ago #198858

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If finding the right benchmarks for the demands of video editing would be an easy task we would have already a test plan. You will see, playback performance is difficult to compare, can be optimized with proxies, and is only one aspect, what about proxy creation, different video codecs, export performance?

I've attached a sequence we've used to compare export performance in Youtube 720p24 and 1080p24 format on a complex effects setup in this discussion about performance of graphic cards on different systems.
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