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TOPIC: Recover crashed project

Re: Recover crashed project 1 week, 6 days ago #187289

  • jwrl
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OK, even though Lightworks isn't a video compositor and was never intended to be, there are several ways that you could handle this. If you're using stills the first and most obvious is to use an image effect to import them. Apply either a "Drop shadow and border" effect (DropShadow.fx) or a "Drop shadow plus" effect (DropShadowPlus.fx). You'll find both of those effects in ALPHA AND BLENDS. That combination will allow you to scale and crop the image as you need to and add borders and/or drop shadows. The disadvantage of that approach may be that you can't soft edge either the border or the drop shadow, although with drop shadow plus you can control their blend modes.

The next approach is to use either an image effect or a video layer to feed "2D DVE plus alpha" (DVE_alpha.fx) which I wrote to address the alpha handling problems inherent in the Lightworks 2D DVE. If you're not satisfied with the hard edged border in the Lightworks DVE you won't like mine either, because I have duplicated the Lightworks DVE interface, and that doesn't support border feathering. Still, if you want to try it you'll find it in Addressing problems with the LW DVE. And if you decide to try it, let me know how you get on. I would appreciate knowing that.

There are also a range of DVE-based effects in DVE, REPOSITION AND CROP and some vignetttes with border and/or drop shadow in MASKS AND VIGNETTES. In that latter category I would look at "DVE with vignette" (DVE_vignette.fx), and in the former category, "Bordered crop" ( BorderCrop.fx), "Deco DVE" (Deco_DVE.fx) and "Triple DVE" (Triple_DVE.fx), although that last one is really overkill.

And if none of those help, have you considered creating stills with transparency and their own drop shadow built in? That will halve the number of effects that you need. I do that a lot with titles, since I rarely use the Lightworks title effect. That combined with my revised 2D DVE should get you over the line.
Last Edit: 1 week, 6 days ago by jwrl.

Re: Recover crashed project 1 week, 4 days ago #187383

  • Slempf
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Okay, I turned the output format down to 720p from 1080p, which is fine because that's all that I need. I also added another 16Gb of ram, and so far it seems to be working. I haven't tried 11 Quads again, but I have expanded the routing quite a bit, and there were a number of times where it seemed as if my computer was seriously considering crashing, but it never did.

jwrl, I've tried every combination of shadow effects that I can find and I finally came up with something that seems to work. So I now have images with frames and shadows, and they're fairly easy to adjust and control, even though the routing may look cumbersome.

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So now the technical bit is done and I can get down to the artistic bit, oh, and actually add some video.

Re: Recover crashed project 1 week, 4 days ago #187385

  • jwrl
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Slempf wrote:
jwrl, I've tried every combination of shadow effects that I can find and I finally came up with something that seems to work. So I now have images with frames and shadows, and they're fairly easy to adjust and control, even though the routing may look cumbersome.

jwrl wrote:
have you considered creating stills with transparency and their own drop shadow built in?

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If you had done something like that with Photoshop or similar you would have required one or at most two effects per image, depending on whether you used image effects or not.

Re: Recover crashed project 1 week, 4 days ago #187386

  • schrauber
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Slempf wrote:
... So now the technical bit is done and I can get down to the artistic bit, oh, and actually add some video.

Congratulations, I wish you much joy to implement your creativity.

jwrl wrote:
If you had done something like that with Photoshop or similar you would have required one or at most two effects per image, depending on whether you used image effects or not.
I suspect that the images should be rotated, and the position of the shadow should not rotate. www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=7&id=186553&Itemid=81

For the border of the picture it could be a solution.
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Last Edit: 1 week, 4 days ago by schrauber.

Re: Recover crashed project 1 week, 3 days ago #187387

  • jwrl
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schrauber wrote:
I suspect that the images should be rotated, and the position of the shadow should not rotate.

That would be a good trick with a 2D DVE, which is what Slempf is using.

There are currently 91 effects being used - over 100 if image effects are being used - and I would not feel at all happy with that level of complexity. I'd always have the nagging worry that it was going to fall over at some stage.

The approach that I suggested of preconditioning the images in an art program would reduce the maximum number of effects required to ten or twenty depending on whether they were imported with an image effect or not. Without an image effect - ten 2D DVEs. With an image effect - ten image effects and ten 2D DVEs. With an image key effect, ten image effects and ten blends.
Last Edit: 1 week, 3 days ago by jwrl.

Re: Recover crashed project 1 week, 3 days ago #187401

  • Slempf
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jwrl wrote:

That would be a good trick with a 2D DVE, which is what Slempf is using.

Actually, they're 3D DVE's, and schrauber is correct, the images do need to rotate. The first three nodes are the remaining Quad Split Screen nodes (I deleted one) which pull together the picture and frame. It then goes into a 3D DVE which feeds two lines. One line is the image and the other one becomes the shadow. In essence the image serves as its own shadow. This allows me to crop and rotate both the image and its shadow with one control. The shadow line then runs through a "Colour correction" and a "Drop Shadow and Border". Oddly though, the "Drop Shadow and Border" isn't there for the shadow, but rather for the border. The border can be adjusted to soften the edge of the shadow image without the need for further adjustments like other border effects require.

Each of the 4 3D DVE's serves a purpose. One controls the image alone. One controls the shadow alone. (So that I can offset them as much as I like. Or make the shadow larger or smaller than the image). The third controls both image and shadow, but treats them as separate images. It's used to crop them, and rotate them around separate pivot points. The fourth one treats the image and shadow as one image. It's used to move them as one unit.

So one moves them. One crops and rotates them. And the other two position and size them relative to each other.

It may look complicated, but it's fairly simple to use. Put in an image. It puts them in a frame and adds a shadow. Then adjust the frame to fit the image, and crop any overhang. Then it's just two controls to move and rotate the image.

I do realize that that's a lot of effects, and I haven't even added the video yet. But since I made the suggested change to the output format, and added some more ram, the system seems to be handling it. Fingers crossed.

It would probably be more efficient if I learned HLSL or Cg. At some point I'll probably be forced to.
Last Edit: 1 week, 3 days ago by Slempf.

Re: Recover crashed project 1 week, 3 days ago #187403

  • jwrl
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Even if they need to rotate, the 3D DVE in your routing is applied after you have composited the border and drop shadow with the image. It's identical to the result that you would get using the technique that I described.

HLSL would not be worth it. Lightworks effects are written in Cg, and it's extremely unlikely that you would need it anyway. I do it because it's intellectual exercise. I usually have one or two effects bubbling away in the background for something interesting to do. Other people do cryptic crosswords.

Re: Recover crashed project 1 week, 3 days ago #187406

  • jwrl
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- and here's one I prepared earlier with ten image effects and ten 3D DVEs. It's a bit rough and ready, but it should convey the idea.

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Last Edit: 1 week, 3 days ago by jwrl.

Re: Recover crashed project 1 week, 3 days ago #187407

  • Slempf
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jwrl wrote:
Even if they need to rotate, the 3D DVE in your routing is applied after you have composited the border and drop shadow with the image. It's identical to the result that you would get using the technique that I described.

I believe that this image illustrates everything that my setup can do that a 3D DVE alone can't do.

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1. I can offset the shadow as much as I want.
2. I can make the shadow larger than the original image.
3. I can rotate the image on the X,Y plane and have the shadow maintain its relative position.

In addition to this, if I wanted to do the math, I could alter the perspective of the shadow to make it cast a realistic shadow when rotated on the z plane.

All in all, it gives me more control of the shadows then any of the stand-alone effects that are available.

Re: Recover crashed project 1 week, 3 days ago #187414

  • schrauber
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Slempf wrote:
... I do realize that that's a lot of effects, and I haven't even added the video yet. But since I made the suggested change to the output format, and added some more ram, the system seems to be handling it. Fingers crossed. ..

If your system is having problems, then you can create a separate image sequence of each moving image with border, shadow, etc., and import those image sequences again, and combine them with fewer effects in a new sequence. Of course you can also export mp4 videos instead of an image sequence (maybe qualitatively suboptimal?)
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
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Last Edit: 1 week, 3 days ago by schrauber.

Re: Recover crashed project 1 week, 3 days ago #187417

  • Slempf
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jwrl, there's something that I would like to do, and perhaps you could make a recommendation. Since I'm using four 3D DVE's, and each of them only needs to control specific attributes like position, crop, or rotation. I would like to remove the controls in each of the four 3D DVE's that I don't need, and then save them as user created effects. That would keep me from accidentally making adjustments in the wrong 3D DVE.

After looking at the FX files it seems like it should be fairly simple, but is it?
Last Edit: 1 week, 3 days ago by Slempf.

Re: Recover crashed project 1 week, 3 days ago #187421

  • jwrl
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Not with the 3D DVE, no. That isn't a pure Cg effect. The only published source that you will find for a Lightworks DVE is for the 2D DVE. There is a fragment, dve1.fx, which performs 3D sampling. That's used for LUT operations though and doesn't appear to be useful for a 3D DVE, certainly not in the form that it's presented.

I have played with implementing my own version of one, but have never been happy enough to release it. My code is too complex, and I suspect that it is nowhere near as efficient as the Lightworks version. In any case I don't have access to the clock rotation controls for the user interface.

Re: Recover crashed project 1 week, 2 days ago #187472

  • schrauber
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Slempf wrote:
... That would keep me from accidentally making adjustments in the wrong 3D DVE ...

In the effect settings, you can rename the effects to better differentiate them. You can also temporarily deactivate an effect in the routing, then switch to the settings, and identify the effect on the switched-off green LED. Then you turn the LED back on.

There are also user effects that can perform rotation and scale with a simple slider. To my knowledge, so far only with one input per effect. These fx files could be customized.
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Last Edit: 1 week, 2 days ago by schrauber.

Re: Recover crashed project 1 week, 2 days ago #187481

  • jwrl
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schrauber wrote:
There are also user effects that can perform rotation and scale with a simple slider. To my knowledge, so far only with one input per effect. These fx files could be customized.

I'd forgotten about those!

However you should be aware, Slempf, that it will never be a simple matter of just removing a parameter. You will also need to remove the supporting code if you do that. That may be trivial, or it may be extremely complex.

You can always hide a parameter by putting an underscore at the head of the name. For example, if for some reason you wished to hide the opacity setting in an effect, you would search for every occurrence of "Opacity" and replace it with "_Opacity". The opacity would still function, but since it would now be hidden from the user, would no longer be adjustable.

(By the way, schrauber, thanks for the tip off about the suspicious posts).
Last Edit: 1 week, 2 days ago by jwrl.
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