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TOPIC: BMPCC 4k or GH4 w/ Atamos?

BMPCC 4k or GH4 w/ Atamos? 1 year ago #183748

  • funbun
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I'm currently running a GH4, but I want to move up to 10 bit 4:2:2 for more data off the chip, more room to grading in post. Do I save up for a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera for do I get an Atamos Ninja V and keep my GH4?

I've never really liked my GH4, but it had gotten the job done. I bought it back in April wanting the BMPCC 4k, but could not wait as I had work lined up. GH4 was a good cost saving purchase to get me shooting. But, now that BM is ramping up and it looks like they're going to deliver this thing as promised, I'm wondering what would be a better purchase now?

Also, on Linux what runs better: Prores or DNxHD(R)?

Re: BMPCC 4k or GH4 w/ Atamos? 1 year ago #183750

  • hugly
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I think that the GH4 with Ninja V is more versatile. I have the new BMPCC on my wishlist, but I will wait at least for half a year after release before deciding and read any available comparison and test.

Lightworks doesn't support DNxHR yet and you need to purchase a license for DNxHD from Editshare. I have one on Windows. I don't see any difference in editing performance between ProRes and DNxHD at comparable bitrates.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...

Re: BMPCC 4k or GH4 w/ Atamos? 1 year ago #183755

  • funbun
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Yeah, that's about what I'm thinking. The GH4 is a workhorse, especially for a small business owner. The Ninja V looks like it will be a good unit for the money.

Re: BMPCC 4k or GH4 w/ Atamos? 1 year ago #183772

  • briandrys
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Just a note that the GH5 (the current model) records 4:2:2 10-bit.

Re: BMPCC 4k or GH4 w/ Atamos? 1 year ago #183783

  • funbun
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That's a very good point! I hope that Pocket Camera will drop the price of the GH5 and GH5S, then we'll have a real war on our hands!

Hearing all the rumors about a Panasonic full frame and a new mount would suggest that they could have a full frame unit and keep the M43 line as their lower cost units much like an APS-C.

Re: BMPCC 4k or GH4 w/ Atamos? 1 year ago #183810

I would prefer the PC4k, but I like shooting CDNG raw almost exclusively. Very different workflow from video.
Razz

Digital Bolex 2k Cinema DNG raw camera
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Re: BMPCC 4k or GH4 w/ Atamos? 1 year ago #183853

  • funbun
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David, do you have to transcode the CDNG raw? If you don't mind what is your workflow? Can it all be done in Lightworks?

Re: BMPCC 4k or GH4 w/ Atamos? 1 year ago #183857

  • Jpaulbiss
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I was drooling over the new BMPCC for a while and then decided it was not for what I do the most. Hand held videos and photography. The reason is that it lacks the in body 5 axis stabilization. You can always argue that there are lenses with built in stabilization, true. I am not sure about the models other than the Olympus OM-D E-M5 MARK II and the OM-D E-M1 MARK II. These the camera can use any MFT or any lens with an adapter I have use my Pentex FF lens. The stabilization asks for the focal length and does the rest.
I have taken 5 second exposures at night, hand held and last week I shot some video handheld for a Zodiac at full speed bouncing over the waves off the coast of Cape Breton. I wouldn't get an Oscar for the clips; but there was little blur.
If the BMPCC had that one extra my money would be on the table. I just don't have the funds to buy a new toy and then buy new lenses also.
Lenovo D30 Workstation,128GB ram, Nvidia L4000, 2xDell U2312HM, Ubuntu Studio 16.04 LTS LWKS 14.5, Lightworks Keyboard, Shuttle Pro 2 Now working
Last Edit: 1 year ago by Jpaulbiss.

Re: BMPCC 4k or GH4 w/ Atamos? 1 year ago #183860

I use Resolve color managed workflow to process the CDNG raw and color grade.
I export the corrected footage to Cineform 10 bit 4:2:2 and edit that in Lightworks.
I transcode any footage from other sources to Cineform for editing too.
Lightworks can ingest CDNG, but doesn't have the tools to handle the dynamic range for highlight and shadow recovery. It is very processor intensive to play too, so will barely play in real time on my machines. But I love grading CDNG. It is like having a blank painter's canvas. There such a huge range of possibilities for creative grading.
Razz

Digital Bolex 2k Cinema DNG raw camera
Canon GL2 DV camcorder
iPAD Mini 3 Iographer rig

Workstation: Intel i7-4770k, Asrock Z87 Thunderbolt 2 MB, 16GB 1866 DDR3 ram,
2TB Seagate Hybrid system drive, 2TB Seagate NAS media drive, E-sata III hot swap drive bay, Nvidia GTX760 2GB GPU
Lightworks kybrd. Shuttlepro v2
Win10 Pro 64bit, Lightworks 14.0 64bit

Mobile Workstation: MSI GTX72 Dominator
Intel i7-6700HQ 2.7GHz Win10 64bit
16GB DDR4 ram, 500GB M.2 SSD
Nvidia GTX970 3GB GPU
USB3, USB3.1-C, Thunderbolt 3 ports
Shuttlepro2 Win10 64bit LW 14.0 64 bit

Re: BMPCC 4k or GH4 w/ Atamos? 1 year ago #183864

  • funbun
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paul, yeah gotta have the right tool for the job. I'm just the opposite I rather not have the stabilization. I always shoot on tripods or monopods. If I go handheld it's because I want that observational cinema look.

I do zero photos. Everything is motion picture for me.

I also shoot Canon FD lenses only: everything manual. That's why I don't like these hybrid cameras at all.

Re: BMPCC 4k or GH4 w/ Atamos? 1 year ago #183866

This is a basic tutorial I did for the Bolex Facebook group to show how to use color managed work flow with CDNG raw in Resolve.

Razz

Digital Bolex 2k Cinema DNG raw camera
Canon GL2 DV camcorder
iPAD Mini 3 Iographer rig

Workstation: Intel i7-4770k, Asrock Z87 Thunderbolt 2 MB, 16GB 1866 DDR3 ram,
2TB Seagate Hybrid system drive, 2TB Seagate NAS media drive, E-sata III hot swap drive bay, Nvidia GTX760 2GB GPU
Lightworks kybrd. Shuttlepro v2
Win10 Pro 64bit, Lightworks 14.0 64bit

Mobile Workstation: MSI GTX72 Dominator
Intel i7-6700HQ 2.7GHz Win10 64bit
16GB DDR4 ram, 500GB M.2 SSD
Nvidia GTX970 3GB GPU
USB3, USB3.1-C, Thunderbolt 3 ports
Shuttlepro2 Win10 64bit LW 14.0 64 bit
Last Edit: 1 year ago by David Rasberry.

Re: BMPCC 4k or GH4 w/ Atamos? 1 year ago #183867

  • funbun
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David, I think I get it:

CDNG raw > Cineform 10 bit 4:2:2 > Lightworks

1. CDNG for correction and grading
2. Cineform as an intermediate codec for editing
3. Lightworks for editing
4. Final distribution export to whatever you need.

I need to work on building a new computer anyway, so building a workstation for raw might be the way to go.

Re: BMPCC 4k or GH4 w/ Atamos? 1 year ago #183870

You need a fast 8-core processor, at least 32GB ram and a good mid range Nvidia GPU with at least 4GB Vram to handle raw efficiently in real time in either Resolve or Lightworks. It also takes gobs of fast storage.
My laptop is the bare bones minimum it takes to load and run Resolve for HD footage, but it works OK for the way I use it.
I use hot swap 2TB WD RED hard drives for project media storage and backup. I have a 2TB raid 0 Thunderbolt 3 scratch drive I use for editing on my laptop.
2TB bare drives are down to about $60 now. Cheap media.
Razz

Digital Bolex 2k Cinema DNG raw camera
Canon GL2 DV camcorder
iPAD Mini 3 Iographer rig

Workstation: Intel i7-4770k, Asrock Z87 Thunderbolt 2 MB, 16GB 1866 DDR3 ram,
2TB Seagate Hybrid system drive, 2TB Seagate NAS media drive, E-sata III hot swap drive bay, Nvidia GTX760 2GB GPU
Lightworks kybrd. Shuttlepro v2
Win10 Pro 64bit, Lightworks 14.0 64bit

Mobile Workstation: MSI GTX72 Dominator
Intel i7-6700HQ 2.7GHz Win10 64bit
16GB DDR4 ram, 500GB M.2 SSD
Nvidia GTX970 3GB GPU
USB3, USB3.1-C, Thunderbolt 3 ports
Shuttlepro2 Win10 64bit LW 14.0 64 bit
Last Edit: 1 year ago by David Rasberry.

Re: BMPCC 4k or GH4 w/ Atamos? 1 year ago #183871

  • Jpaulbiss
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funbun wrote:
I'm just the opposite I rather not have the stabilization. I always shoot on tripods or monopods.
.


BMPCC
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Re: BMPCC 4k or GH4 w/ Atamos? 1 year ago #183872

funbun wrote:
paul, yeah gotta have the right tool for the job. I'm just the opposite I rather not have the stabilization. I always shoot on tripods or monopods. If I go handheld it's because I want that observational cinema look.

I do zero photos. Everything is motion picture for me.

I also shoot Canon FD lenses only: everything manual. That's why I don't like these hybrid cameras at all.


I'm the same. The Bolex doesn't have automatic anything. As pure and simple a photographic instrument as one will ever see in the digital age. This is my handheld rig.


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Razz

Digital Bolex 2k Cinema DNG raw camera
Canon GL2 DV camcorder
iPAD Mini 3 Iographer rig

Workstation: Intel i7-4770k, Asrock Z87 Thunderbolt 2 MB, 16GB 1866 DDR3 ram,
2TB Seagate Hybrid system drive, 2TB Seagate NAS media drive, E-sata III hot swap drive bay, Nvidia GTX760 2GB GPU
Lightworks kybrd. Shuttlepro v2
Win10 Pro 64bit, Lightworks 14.0 64bit

Mobile Workstation: MSI GTX72 Dominator
Intel i7-6700HQ 2.7GHz Win10 64bit
16GB DDR4 ram, 500GB M.2 SSD
Nvidia GTX970 3GB GPU
USB3, USB3.1-C, Thunderbolt 3 ports
Shuttlepro2 Win10 64bit LW 14.0 64 bit
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