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TOPIC: What impact does the change of ownership have on the console?

Re: What impact does the change of ownership have on the console? 1 month ago #225542

  • motosega
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the xkeys devices aren't just keyboard emulators, they have HID Mode too.

from the PI engineering product page:

"Free SDK offer full access to raw positioning data"

"Program commands in up to fifteen zones on the shuttle ring - seven clockwise, seven counter-clockwise, and one at zero. Program separate commands for clockwise and counterclockwise rotation of the jog wheel. Alternatively, raw positioning data may be read from the device as described in our free SDK."

xkeys.com/software/developer/developerhiddatareports.html

Re: What impact does the change of ownership have on the console? 1 month ago #225544

Good to know. Now all we need is a specific driver for Lightworks to take advantage of it.
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Re: What impact does the change of ownership have on the console? 1 month ago #225554

  • motosega
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if the lightworks console goes out of production, it would make a lot of sense to have an open communication protocol for controllers.

if it doesn't go out of production i can see the sense of having the lightworks console being a kind of copy protection dongle, like Rane/Serato Scratch Live used to do, it's a digital dj software that used it's custom audio interface as a dongle for the software. if you connected a Rane interface then the Software would run in full, without the interface you could run the software but only in a limited "offline" way.

For lightworks with its subscription model, it might make more sense to offer cheaper licences for systems with a console attached, or make the licences last longer. after all, only people dedicated to lightworks will buy a Console. and i could probably convince the woman in accounts that it's money well spent.

at its current price i can't seriously consider buying a console but at the 300-400€ price point i certainly could, especially if it decreased the long term cost of using lightworks.
Last Edit: 1 month ago by motosega. Reason: more words

Re: What impact does the change of ownership have on the console? 1 month ago #225565

  • RWAV
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motosega wrote:
i can see the sense of having the lightworks console being a kind of copy protection dongle
That's as it was in original turnkey LW systems. Needed the console to run. There was a product called Softworks initiated under Gee Broadcast, the owners before EditShare, allowing LW use without console.

Not sure that a one-off low value hardware sale/purchase can be a both ticket to a perpetual discount on software and part of a sustainable business model.

Way-back-when last century LW was sold through established broadcast equipment suppliers, who all of course love a healthy mark-up, our first Lightworks was $53,000 (in Aussie currency which fluctuates from a little above $US parity and we drop of purchasing out when it is below about 70% - can't recall where it was at the time) subsequent Turnkey LW purchases included VIPs at about $180,000 each. The console was obligatory and included in the price of turnkey systems - there were no charges for software updates.
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Re: What impact does the change of ownership have on the console? 1 month ago #225568

  • jwrl
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RWAV wrote:
our first Lightworks was $53,000

Ours was $98K. Penalty of being an early adopter.

Re: What impact does the change of ownership have on the console? 1 month ago #225569

  • RWAV
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Hmmm - yours was certainly before we had our own. We initially dealt with the guy in Melbourne name escapes me - remember calling his office to discuss - the person on switchboard didn't have any information but said it was very good and I should buy one, "No, no one available to talk". Ultimately bought from, Quinto who had acquired the dealership. Wouldn't have thought the ex UK price was so different - maybe exchange rate is part of the story - maybe I'm recalling how much we borrowed for our first system not the total price.
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Re: What impact does the change of ownership have on the console? 1 month ago #225571

  • jwrl
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You would have called Bob Weis in all likelihood, and he would have flick passed any technical issues to me if I was available.

I suspect that the price difference was as much due to a reclassification under our customs laws as to anything else. It was something along of the lines of it being originally classified as computer hardware but instead being identified as film editing equipment. I can't remember the exact difference that made, but I recall that it was substantial.

Re: What impact does the change of ownership have on the console? 1 month ago #225592

  • arniepix
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I wonder how the jog wheel of a Mackie audio controller (or Mackie compatible?) works with LWKS?

Also, since I sideline as a colorist & online editor, I've got my eye on the Tangent Element color controller. If these can be made to work with LWKS, that would be awesome!
I work in Manhattan, USA, but at night I cross the waters to sleep in Brooklyn, USA.

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Re: What impact does the change of ownership have on the console? 1 month ago #225605

  • RWAV
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arniepix wrote:
I wonder how the jog wheel of a Mackie audio controller (or Mackie compatible?) works with LWKS?
Sadly it doesn't work at all - that's the experience here with 2 different versions of the Mackie Control Pro - here in any case.
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Re: What impact does the change of ownership have on the console? 1 month ago #225610

  • Jpaulbiss
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jwrl wrote:
You would have called Bob Weis in all likelihood, and he would have flick passed any technical issues to me if I was available.

I suspect that the price difference was as much due to a reclassification under our customs laws as to anything else. It was something along of the lines of it being originally classified as computer hardware but instead being identified as film editing equipment. I can't remember the exact difference that made, but I recall that it was substantial.

Use to have that problem importing music electronics until the exporter packaged the volume control knob separately, then it was classified as parts, much lower duty.
HP Elitebook 840, 2xDell U2312HM, UbuntuStudio 20.04 LTS, Lightworks Keyboard, Shuttle Pro 2 which works sometimes

Re: What impact does the change of ownership have on the console? 1 month ago #225612

  • jwrl
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Jpaulbiss wrote:
Use to have that problem importing music electronics until the exporter packaged the volume control knob separately

Ah, bureaucracy! Isn't it a wonderful thing?

Re: What impact does the change of ownership have on the console? 1 month ago #225614

  • ArteD
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All this talk of replacing the Console makes me sad. The current Console is perfect, works as intended and absolutely needs no replacement really. So the motivation comes from other sides.

The Console was what cemented my passion for Lightworks and I can't see myself using anything else. Hope whatever happens they will continue to at least support the legacy Consoles. It's prefect.
I'm not employed by or officially represent LWKS Software Ltd or Lightworks. I'm just a Lightworks user.

Re: What impact does the change of ownership have on the console? 1 month ago #225617

  • RWAV
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Completely agree, but passionate as expressions of support might be it's equally clear Consoles are a loss-making item even at the last known price, which has not been increased since the Console became optional under a previous LW ownership. Consoles are not selling at a fast enough rate to warrant an economical production run.

It would be wonderful if there was a solution.
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Re: What impact does the change of ownership have on the console? 1 month ago #225618

  • briandrys
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In the current pricing climate, the console is an expensive, specialist piece of kit. Back in the day, its cost would just be a small part of the overall cost of buying a Lightworks package.

Then costs were at a different level, I recall trying to get a film license (to edit at 24fps) for use on a broadcast AVID and it cost over £10k. Since it was for only one short film, needless to say. it was edited at 25fps.

Perhaps the only way to keep the cost down would be for it to be usable on other NLEs, if not as well as on Lightworks. So increasing its potential market. Although they don't seem to be huge sellers, since the consumer end tends to be price sensitive,
Last Edit: 1 month ago by briandrys.

Re: What impact does the change of ownership have on the console? 1 month ago #225621

The Shuttle Pro is by no means a suitable replacement for the console. though it does work well enough to show what is possible with that working style.

I hope a means can be found to make short production runs of the original style console at more economical prices. But it certainly was not the most expensive software interface in the market even at its last price. With modern additive manufacturing processes (3d printing) it should be possible to contract out small production runs of all of the parts involved in quantities that wouldn't break the bank. Say 25 to 50 units at a time. Pretty much anything of reasonable size can be made out of a variety of plastics and metals by several different methods. The cost to make one is no different than the cost per unit for higher numbers as there are no expensive traditional high volume manufacturing items like custom dies required.

My father some years ago invented and patented a new style of jigsaw puzzle where every side of every piece fit every side of every other piece so you could create your own pictures with modular graphic printed pieces. But the cost of a traditional one piece die to cut an entire puzzle at one go was in the tens of thousands of dollars and the cost of individual dies for each shape for a step and repeat machine was still over $5k. The stamping machine itself another $10k. A $400 3D printer could easily make them now and the artwork could be printed on a flat bed ink jet printer that costs less than $1k.

But having a range of more precise less expensive alternatives for lower priced markets would be nice too. I stress the word alternative, not replacement. From a survey of available options it seems like the price range for reasonable quality and precision functionality starts around $400.
Razz

Digital Bolex 2k Cinema DNG raw camera
Canon GL2 DV camcorder
iPAD Mini 3 Iographer rig

Workstation: Intel i7-4770k, Asrock Z87 Thunderbolt 2 MB, 16GB 1866 DDR3 ram,
2TB Seagate Hybrid system drive, 2TB Seagate NAS media drive, E-sata III hot swap drive bay, Nvidia GTX760 2GB GPU
Lightworks kybrd. Shuttlepro v2
Win10 Pro 64bit, Lightworks 14.0 64bit

Mobile Workstation: MSI GTX72 Dominator
Intel i7-6700HQ 2.7GHz Win10 64bit
16GB DDR4 ram, 500GB M.2 SSD
Nvidia GTX970 3GB GPU
USB3, USB3.1-C, Thunderbolt 3 ports
Shuttlepro2 Win10 64bit LW 14.0 64 bit
Last Edit: 1 month ago by David Rasberry.
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