Welcome, Guest
Username Password: Remember me
Anything that doesn't fit into any other category.
  • Page:
  • 1

TOPIC: Transparency for EditShare's plans for Lightworks (re: Open source)

Transparency for EditShare's plans for Lightworks (re: Open source) 3 weeks, 3 days ago #221858

  • SepiaStudios
  • Edu User
  • OFFLINE
  • Expert Boarder
  • Posts: 99
  • 3 weeks, 3 days ago
Hi there,

I was curious whether there's been an announcement from Lightworks to confirm their early 2010s plans to go open source have changed. If not, then EditShare LLC or Lightworks should publicly announce this to clear up confusion for users.

Timeline of available information:

Lightworks' commitment to an open-source road map on the forum stretches back to 9 years ago with this Admin post, where the Admin said "Some time in the middle of 2011, we hope to reach our next milestone - releasing the source code to any developer who wants to build upon what we started" but "before we can release any source, we have several hundred thousand lines of code to review."

The next update I could find is in this November 23, 2011 press release (via Wikipedia and Wayback Machine), where Lightworks wrote "had originally hoped to release the new version on the 29th November. However, we are not yet fully satisfied with the stability of this version with its many new features and therefore we have made the difficult decision to delay its release to our customers."

After this date, November 23 2011, I'm unable to find any further updates from Lightworks or EditShare LLC about this (feel free to add or correct me). Instead, the only references to open source are from Lightworks users asking about updates on the forum, causing frustration for moderators back in 2014, who explained that Lightworks is "busy" and that "Open source will be here when it's here. Please do not post open source threads. Any new threads opened or posts regarding this topic will be deleted." Other threads that raised this question were locked and redirected to the stickied thread.

Despite this, years later users still have these questions, including this post from 2018, and most recently a post from October, 2019. It's this most recent post from 2019 that intrigued me, because it had been a full 8 (!) years since Lightworks' most recent press release on the subject, and because of moderator briandys' response:

I'd therefore assume that circumstances may have changed in the intervening years and any open source plans have been put on hold for any of the possible reasons that cause a company's initial plans not to proceed.

The key word here is "assume" -- we don't know, because Lightworks/EditShare LLC has not told us.

In justifying locking the thread briandys said:

Since anything further on this subject is up to Editshare and the subject has been discussed in the past and nothing more can be added at this time, I'm locking this thread.

Forum moderators have the right to lock any threads and I'm not disputing that. However, the practice of locking these discussions diffuses any pressure on Lightworks to make a statement and inform their users about their decision to change course on open source. I don't think this was the intent of locking the threads, but the effect is that it insulates EditShare LLC from any pressure on this forum to respond to their active users about a legitimate question concerning the future of the software. In essence, moderators have had to deal with these questions because Lightworks/EditShare have not made a statement to clear up confusion, not because users have access to publicly available information that would remove the need to ask in the first place.

EditShare's ownership has changed in the intervening decade since Lightworks' open source plans were announced. Parkergale Capital bought and received a "majority stake" in EditShare LLC in spring of last year, 2019. The Hollywood Reporter specifically mentioned Lightworks as one of the key products they were interested in, and that "execs confirmed that Boston-headquartered EditShare will continue to develop Lightworks." As of this writing, EditShare is still listed as one of their investments.

This indicates, to me, that they are well situated for continued development without an open source roadmap. This isn't necessarily a terrible thing -- open source outside of the free software framework has its own issues (notably relying on free labour which is then profited on by the private owner) -- but their plans are purely speculation on my part. Because still, 9 years later, don't have any confirmation from Lightworks, EditShare LLC, or now Parkergale Capital.

I'm not a software developer who had a stake in getting involved with the software's development, but after getting involved in the 2020 beta program and contributing bug fixes and feedback it really feels odd that EditShare/Lightworks have not issued any updates clarifying their future intent for the software. The relationship to your users already functions as a closed source, but heavily user involved development process. Why not make this public knowledge?

At best, it's opaque and prevents transparency for their userbase. At worst, you have the concerns raised in Jesse-Webb's 2019 post. These are concerns I share. I've invested money and a whole lot of time the past two years in Lightworks as a pro product, and seeing how user requests for updates on the open source project have gone unresponded to by the developers or parent companies is rubbing me the wrong way.

I reiterate the call for a public announcement from Lightworks/Edit Share for an update on their open source intentions. The lack of updates from the company on this in 9 years is frankly unacceptable.

Thank you.
Last Edit: 3 weeks, 3 days ago by SepiaStudios. Reason: Formatting
The topic has been locked.

Re: Transparency for EditShare's plans for Lightworks (re: Open source) 3 weeks, 3 days ago #221859

  • hugly
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 25337
  • 3 weeks, 3 days ago
Hello,

Regarding the history of the code base, I don't think that this software is suitable to go open source. Even if Editshare would be willing to fulfill the early announcements, as soon as it goes open source, you'll find nobody to maintain it. The result will be a dead piece of software, unless Editshare decides to put development forces, and thus money, on it, but why should they? Just my point of view.

Beside of that, over the last few years, all question of that kind have never been commented or answered by Lightworks officials, just by volunteers moderators locking the threads just after commenting that the decision is fully up to Editshare.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 3 weeks, 3 days ago by hugly.
The topic has been locked.

Re: Transparency for EditShare's plans for Lightworks (re: Open source) 3 weeks, 3 days ago #221860

  • SepiaStudios
  • Edu User
  • OFFLINE
  • Expert Boarder
  • Posts: 99
  • 3 weeks, 3 days ago
Hi hugly, musescore is an example of an open source creative software tool with a private owner.

Regardless, I never said it needs to be open source, but that Lightworks/EditShare LLC have not clarified their intentions since their last press release in November, 2011. This is unacceptable and, I find, unprofessional.

hugly wrote:

Beside of that, over the last few years, all question of that kind have never been commented or answered by Lightworks officials, just by volunteers moderators locking the threads just after commenting that the decision is fully up to Editshare.


Yes, this is exactly what my letter documents. This puts undue responsibility on moderators too, as they would not have to address these questions year after year if Lightworks/EditShare LLC publicly clarified their position.
Last Edit: 3 weeks, 3 days ago by SepiaStudios. Reason: add musescore example, grammar fixes
The topic has been locked.

Re: Transparency for EditShare's plans for Lightworks (re: Open source) 3 weeks, 3 days ago #221861

  • hugly
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 25337
  • 3 weeks, 3 days ago
I agree. I believe, the wording "unprofessional" communication brings it to the point.
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 3 weeks, 3 days ago by hugly. Reason: Typos
The topic has been locked.

Re: Transparency for EditShare's plans for Lightworks (re: Open source) 3 weeks, 3 days ago #221862

  • kalimerox
  • Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 697
  • 3 weeks, 3 days ago
@sepiastudios

I fully agree and support your request to transparency. I do not mind if the program is closed source or open source (and the pros and cons to that would be better discussed in another thread..) but I dislike this atmosphere of speculation with no clear words from editshare in a long time and also saw the beta testing process as well as the way of releasing of lightworks 2020 in no good light. everything tells me: something is wrong. I hope I am wrong here. But a bit of transparency could clean that all up. I do not see that coming though.
The topic has been locked.

Re: Transparency for EditShare's plans for Lightworks (re: Open source) 3 weeks, 3 days ago #221863

  • briandrys
  • Moderator
    Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 10012
  • 3 weeks, 3 days ago
The moderators are not part of Editshare, we are users, like yourself.

I'm sure that Editshare is aware of the interest expressed over the years by members of the open source community. However, the situation expressed in FAQ is:

We cannot give a date when this will happen, but announcements and updates will be regularly posted on the Lightworks Forum.


Since there hasn't been any announcements for a number of years, I would assume that a open source Lightworks is currently on hold.

Since this subject has been discussed a number times and Editshate can see the OPs message, I'm locking this thread.

It's not closing down s debate, just that only Editshare can provide an answer regarding factors like commercial codecs or creating a possible Lightworks foundation like Mozilla Firefox etc. In the end, there's a good chance that all this is currently on the back burner, possibly because of the difficulties involved.

I would add that the beta testing does give users the opportunity to directly make suggestions that may possibly be enacted within hours. However, this is separate issue to open sourcing.
Last Edit: 3 weeks, 3 days ago by briandrys.
The topic has been locked.

Re: Transparency for EditShare's plans for Lightworks (re: Open source) 3 weeks, 3 days ago #221864

  • hugly
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 25337
  • 3 weeks, 3 days ago
Make a suggestion, if every request of that kind, open communication, is locked by volunteer moderators, where should Editshare officials answer, on Twitter?
It's better to travel well than to arrive...
Last Edit: 3 weeks, 3 days ago by hugly.
The topic has been locked.

Re: Transparency for EditShare's plans for Lightworks (re: Open source) 3 weeks, 3 days ago #221865

  • SepiaStudios
  • Edu User
  • OFFLINE
  • Expert Boarder
  • Posts: 99
  • 3 weeks, 3 days ago
Thanks to others posting in support!

briandrys, I know moderators like yourself aren't a part of EditShare, did not mean to imply that.

briandrys wrote:

Since there hasn't been any announcements for a number of years, I would assume that a open source Lightworks is currently on hold.... In the end, there's a good chance that all this is currently on the back burner, possibly because of the difficulties involved.


The issue is, as you demonstrate here, we can only "assume" or that there's a "good chance" about this situation. We'd like to know for sure.

I'll be contacting EditShare through other channels about this, and encourage other users to do so (especially Pro users).
The topic has been locked.

Re: Transparency for EditShare's plans for Lightworks (re: Open source) 3 weeks, 3 days ago #221866

  • briandrys
  • Moderator
    Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 10012
  • 3 weeks, 3 days ago
Editshare officials can make announcements on the forum at any time,

The communications in all the open source threads has tended to go in circles, since there probably isn't currently an answer.

There's no such thing as certainty in the world.

However, you are free to directly contact Editshare.
Last Edit: 3 weeks, 3 days ago by briandrys.
The topic has been locked.

Re: Transparency for EditShare's plans for Lightworks (re: Open source) 2 weeks, 5 days ago #222135

  • Matt Sandford
  • Administrator
    Pro User
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 143
  • 2 weeks, 5 days ago
Hi All,

We have always envisaged Lightworks becoming Open Source, however, when we delved deeper and deeper into the code base of Lightworks it became evident that it was not viable to make the solution Open Source at that point in time, especially with all the other work that was required.

We have spent numerous years cleaning up the code base to bring it right up to modern day standards and this of course takes a very long time. We still hope to announce something in the future but I cannot give you an estimate of when that might be at this stage.

I appreciate this may not be the update you all hoped for but hopefully it is not all doom and gloom.

Stay safe.

Matt

P.S Thanks to SepiaStudios for bringing this thread to our attention.
Lightworks Product Manager
The topic has been locked.
  • Page:
  • 1
Time to create page: 0.42 seconds
Scroll To Top