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TOPIC: DNxHR

DNxHR 3 days, 22 hours ago #211161

  • hugly
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So far, I didn't care much about Avid DNxHR, but after some test I find DNxHR is a very competitive codec. It appears to be more than just Avid's answer to ProRes. They say it's designed for resolutions above HD, but from what I've seen so far, it appears to be a general purpose codec which works also fine with HD material and below.

In a mov container it supports, different from DNxHD, almost any combination of common sizes and frame rates. It support alpha channel. Encoding with FFmpeg at similar quality levels is much faster than ProRes. The editing performance, even with 4K material and 12-bit HQX settings (1.75 Gigabits per second) is very high (with source placed on suitable M.2 SSDs).

FFmpeg appears to support the flavours listed here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNxHR_codec

It needs a DNxHD license to be able to import DNxHR. I have one, but I don't understand the need. DNxHR playback doesn't need any license with Avid, as far as I'm aware of, it's free. And, export/transcoding/rendering in DNxHR isn't supported currently, anyway.
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Last Edit: 3 days, 22 hours ago by hugly.

Re: DNxHR 3 days, 2 hours ago #211225

  • timzett
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hugly wrote:
It needs a DNxHD license to be able to import DNxHR. I have one, but I don't understand the need. DNxHR playback doesn't need any license with Avid, as far as I'm aware of, it's free. And, export/transcoding/rendering in DNxHR isn't supported currently, anyway.
How did you find out that a license is required? I mean you have one, so how could you verify the need if one doesn't have it?
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Last Edit: 3 days, 2 hours ago by timzett.

Re: DNxHR 3 days, 2 hours ago #211226

  • hugly
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I have multiple installations on different systems with different users. I just logged in with a user without a DNxHD license, namley 'hugly'.
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Re: DNxHR 3 days, 2 hours ago #211228

  • timzett
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Maybe with Avid, the license is already included, while with 3rd party applications, you still have to have one?
With ProRes it's similar.
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Re: DNxHR 3 days, 2 hours ago #211229

  • hugly
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As far as I know, DNxHR/HD playback doesn't need a license with AVID. It needs licenses to use their encoders.

avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/download/Avid-QuickTime-Codecs-LE

If you have access to official sources of information which say something different please tell.
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Last Edit: 3 days, 2 hours ago by hugly.

Re: DNxHR 3 days, 1 hour ago #211231

  • timzett
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I don't have any other sources, so just guessing.

I had another documentaion from Apple in mind though, regarding ProRes, where it said no Apple support for this codec out of their own product line. On the other hand, in Apple stuff it's all there.

That's where I thought: Maybe it's a similar thing with Avid - license related though. Like: As long as you run one of their products, regardless if you play back the codec or export with it, it's all included. However, if you want that in other products which are not theirs, you need a license.

About your link: Yes you can download it, however is it enough to just install it, or will it not work unless you have a license?
Lwks x64 14.6.0.0 beta (117868) pro license, on Windows 10

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Last Edit: 3 days, 1 hour ago by timzett.

Re: DNxHR 3 days, 1 hour ago #211234

  • hugly
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I think all that is faster tested than discussed. DNxHR in a mov container, plays out of the box with VLC and even MPC.

Personally I don't know any codec on this planet which requires paying license fees for playback.
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Re: DNxHR 3 days ago #211235

  • daylife
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Ah, I didn't know that the DNxHD license also includes DNxHR, good to know!

Wondering though, why would you use DNxHR over CineForm? Compatibility with other software like Avid?

Re: DNxHR 3 days ago #211238

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I'm pretty sure that, at comparable bitrates, you won't see any difference in quality and editing performance between Cineform, DNxHR and ProRes.

Since there's a free SDK, Cineform could be the bridge across multiple operating systems, theoretically, but Apple and AVID still fight against it, apparently.
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Re: DNxHR 3 days ago #211240

  • timzett
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I made some performance tests in the past, with MPEG2 I-Frame, XDCam, Cineform, DNxHD - not DNxHR - and ProRes LT.
MPEG2 I-Frame, XDCam played most smootly, followed by ProRes LT and Cineform. DNxHD had the biggest files and played the worst.

Of course for all tests I used the same source video parameters.

I don't want to elaborate too much about the actual bottleneck here, even though I am quite sure that for me it was the harddisk. Anyway, in order to make a halfway neutral statement about it, all parameters have to be considered and weighted.
While saying this, DNxHR might be more streamlined than its older brother. I saw the same with the relatively highly compressed XAVC-L, compared to classical h.264 derivates.
Lwks x64 14.6.0.0 beta (117868) pro license, on Windows 10

HARDWARE:
.Intel Core i7-4710HQ Quad-core 2,50 GHz, 16 GB DDR3 SDRAM
.GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 860M with 4 GB RAM
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CAMs: Sony PXW-X70, NEX-5n, Xiaomi Yi 1080p, iPhone 7
Last Edit: 2 days, 23 hours ago by timzett.

Re: DNxHR 2 days, 23 hours ago #211242

  • David Rasberry
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License or no, Lightworks should implement full DNXHR support.
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Re: DNxHR 2 days, 23 hours ago #211243

  • daylife
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I find it a huge plus that CineForm is an open (source) codec, but DNxHR, as far as I'm aware, seems to be better supported, both by software and hardware (for example some Atomos recorders allow DNxHD/R, but not CineForm).

Anyway, so yes, it would be great if LW Pro would support DNxHR without buying the extra license, but as it's only €55 it's not really a problem.

For me playback is enough, as I transcode in Resolve anyway, but nevertheless, encoding options would be good to have as well.
Last Edit: 2 days, 23 hours ago by daylife.

Re: DNxHR 2 days, 16 hours ago #211284

  • arniepix
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David Rasberry wrote:
License or no, Lightworks should implement full DNXHR support.

+1!
I work in Manhattan, USA, but at night I cross the waters to sleep in Brooklyn, USA.

Also, post production is not an afterthought!

Re: DNxHR 2 days, 15 hours ago #211286

  • hugly
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I can imagine that lack of DNxHR encoding isn't a matter of missing good will, but costs.

Does anybody know details about Avid's licensing models for third party integration of DNxHR encoding?
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