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TOPIC: Soft cut duration

Soft cut duration 1 month, 1 week ago #201535

  • hugly
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Soft cut duration different from zero adds audible dropouts and distortion to empty cuts on audio tracks. That isn't new. That's why I set it to zero in all of my projects.

Could anybody provide an archive of a sequence with a short piece of audio-only where soft cut duration away from zero helps fixing any kind of problem?
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Last Edit: 1 month, 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: Soft cut duration 1 month, 1 week ago #201546

  • khaver
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I think the intent of soft cuts is for cutting dialogue, not music or other continuous level clips. Use a DAW for music and make cuts where the waveform crosses zero.
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Re: Soft cut duration 1 month, 1 week ago #201547

  • hugly
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The default settings when creating a new project are away from zero. Do you have any sample that shows a problem which can be fixed with soft cut duration away from zero?
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Re: Soft cut duration 1 month, 1 week ago #201548

  • schrauber
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When I test at 10% playback speed, I think I hear that "Soft cut duration" is just a quick fade-out and fade-in.

Would it make more sense if "Soft cut duration" would do something like "Crossfade" instead?
If something like this were implemented, then it would be necessary to check potential interactions with the sound level settings and the normal crossfade effects beforehand.
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Last Edit: 1 month, 1 week ago by schrauber.

Re: Soft cut duration 1 month, 1 week ago #201552

  • hugly
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I just would like to understand what it can be used for and, why it's by default at its maximum value in milliseconds, different for different project frame rates. Audio counted in milliseconds shouldn't have anything to do with frame rate. I even don't understand what it is technically/physically.

Edit: And, why is it global to the project and not specific (local) to a group of audio tracks and/or audio segments in sequences?
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Last Edit: 1 month, 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: Soft cut duration 1 month, 1 week ago #201556

  • hugly
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The 11.5 manual says on page 189
4. Select a soft-cut duration (clips audio crossfade) in millseconds for all audio cuts

schrauber wrote:
Would it make more sense if "Soft cut duration" would do something like "Crossfade" instead?
I don't think so. A correctly implemented crossfade wouldn't have audible impact on empty cuts.

This "Soft cut duration" cannot be a crossfade.
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Last Edit: 1 month, 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: Soft cut duration 1 month, 1 week ago #201559

  • hugly
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I might be corrected on this, but for the moment I assume that nobody on the forum uses 'Soft cut duration' to fix some certain problems, but there seems to be some theory what it might be be good for.

Because the old documentation doesn't explain what I hear, I made some tests to uncover the physical nature of 'Soft cut duration'. It appears as symmetric fade-in / fade-out at any cut point, including empty cuts, not a cross fade.

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I'm pretty sure that - with any kind of continuous sound, voice, music, ambient, whatever - any value above 10 milliseconds will result in a clearly audible drop-out of sound. I think, for "filtering" artificial spikes at cut points, 5 ms or even below should be sufficient?

Three question derive directly:

1. What can values above 10 ms be used for?
2. Why are the defaults so high?
3. Why do the defaults depend on the project frame rate?
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Last Edit: 1 month, 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: Soft cut duration 1 month, 1 week ago #201562

  • jwrl
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In the film industry a soft cut was traditionally any dissolve under four frame duration in my experience. Usually two frames was the most common. When doing it with sprocketted magnetic tape it was commonly achieved by using a diagonal splice or by selectively scraping away the oxide.
Last Edit: 1 month, 1 week ago by jwrl.

Re: Soft cut duration 1 month, 1 week ago #201570

  • RWAV
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schrauber wrote:
Would it make more sense if "Soft cut duration" would do something like "Crossfade" instead?
Most likely not. A crossfade would introduce incoming and outgoing underlying audio which may be completely inappropriate.
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Re: Soft cut duration 1 month, 1 week ago #201571

  • hugly
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schrauber wrote:
When I test at 10% playback speed, I think I hear that "Soft cut duration" is just a quick fade-out and fade-in.

Would it make more sense if "Soft cut duration" would do something like "Crossfade" instead?
If something like this were implemented, then it would be necessary to check potential interactions with the sound level settings and the normal crossfade effects beforehand.

After reading through the whole thread again I obviously ignored the content of your post entirely, sorry for that.

If the purpose of 'Soft cut duration' is to filter artificial spikes at cut points the approach of applying very steep envelopes to fade-in and out isn't wrong, from my point of view. A short crossfade would eliminate the artifacts on empty cuts, but also there, anything above 10 ms might introduce audible artifacts due to the mix.

I think that a default of 5 ms, better even below, for 'soft cut duration' with all project frame rates, together with excluding empty cuts would be a reasonable approach.
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Re: Soft cut duration 1 month, 1 week ago #201604

  • Great White
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excluding empty cuts would be a reasonable approach

I've added that (in the next build)
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Re: Soft cut duration 1 month, 1 week ago #201606

  • hugly
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Many thanks!

Allow one question: Do you know the reason why the default values for soft cut duration have been increased to the max. possible value for each project family with V14.0, instead of leaving it at 5 ms for all, as it was before, with V12.6?
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Re: Soft cut duration 1 month, 1 week ago #201610

  • Great White
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hugly wrote:
Many thanks!

Allow one question: Do you know the reason why the default values for soft cut duration have been increased to the max. possible value for each project family with V14.0, instead of leaving it at 5 ms for all, as it was before, with V12.6?

I do not, although I can attempt to find out
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Re: Soft cut duration 1 month, 1 week ago #201623

  • hugly
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Great White wrote:
I do not, although I can attempt to find out

Thank you, I appreciate your effort.
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