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TOPIC: Cue Marker positions

Cue Marker positions 1 week, 1 day ago #194528

  • hugly
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What kind of timecode cue markers on a sequence are supposed to stick to, primary T/C or sequence TC?

On a segment with one cue marker, when trimming-in to shorten the segment, the cue marker doesn't move, it sticks to sequence T/C, the frame at cue marker position changes. When doing the same by cutting, the cue marker moves, it appears to stick to primary T/C, the frame at cue marker position doesn't change.
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Last Edit: 1 week, 1 day ago by hugly.

Re: Cue Marker positions 1 week, 1 day ago #194541

  • schrauber
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Primary T/C: Clip-Cue (also Subclip-Cue)
Cue inserted in the Clip / Subclip timelines.
Moves while trimming in the Sequence.
When trimming (Unjoin) almost in real time. Otherwise, unfortunately not (but then can triggers manually).


Sequence T/C: Sequence Cue
Cue inserted directly into the Sequence timeline.
Edit: Static Cue position.


The video shows clip-cue from two different sources.
In this example, the Clip Cue of the audio moves in the sequence. The Clip Cue of the video will stay in place because in this example the video segment is not trimmed.
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Last Edit: 1 week ago by schrauber.

Re: Cue Marker positions 1 week, 1 day ago #194546

  • schrauber
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hugly wrote:
... On a segment with one cue marker, when trimming-in to shorten the segment, the cue marker doesn't move, it sticks to sequence T/C, the frame at cue marker position changes. When doing the same by cutting, the cue marker moves, it appears to stick to primary T/C, the frame at cue marker position doesn't change.

Are you having trouble updating the Cue position or is it related to different source clips?
Otherwise, maybe a video would be helpful to see what happens in your test?
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Re: Cue Marker positions 1 week ago #194583

  • hugly
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I don't have any problem, but Lightworks has.

What should that be, relation to sequence or primary T/C depending on editing actions, 'Schrödinger's Cue Marker'?
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Last Edit: 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: Cue Marker positions 1 week ago #194588

  • hugly
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schrauber wrote:
a video would be helpful to see what happens in your test

I'm away from my main computer and can't make screen recordings currently, I hope that my description, with a sequence cue marker on a segment, trim-in to shorten vs delete the same section and compare how the position of the cue marker changes shouldn't be that hard to reproduce for the time being.
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Last Edit: 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: Cue Marker positions 1 week ago #194595

  • schrauber
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hugly wrote:
What should that be, relation to sequence or primary T/C depending on editing actions ...

From my point of view: In my video only Clip-Cue are used. They position themselves on Primary T/C. When I move a segment in the timeline without selecting an Unjoin Trim option, the repositioning will only work after a manual trigger.
Workarounds:
- Select "Slide Clip" before moving a segment.
if I forgot, then:
- I force a repositioning by pressing the "Join" key twice (keyboard shortcut).
There are also other triggers.
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Last Edit: 1 week ago by schrauber.

Re: Cue Marker positions 1 week ago #194596

  • schrauber
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hugly wrote:
when trimming-in to shorten the segment, the cue marker doesn't move, it sticks to sequence T/C

Then you probably created a Sequence Cue. With Clip-Cue it works on my system (Cues added to the source).

hugly wrote:
When doing the same by cutting, the cue marker moves, it appears to stick to primary T/C, the frame at cue marker position doesn't change.
You're right; the Sequence Cue is repositioned when frames are deleted or inserted to the left of it. I haven't noticed this yet, because I usually use replace or insert something at the end. I personally don't see this as a Primary T/C assignment, but only as a meaningful shift on the Sequence T/C timeline.
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Re: Cue Marker positions 1 week ago #194599

  • hugly
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What meaning should this dualism have and who will write the manual to describe this bahaviour? Either I need to mark a certain frame or a certain timecode on the timeline. For my taste, dualism should stay in quantum physics.
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Re: Cue Marker positions 1 week ago #194600

  • schrauber
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schrauber wrote:
[...] the Sequence Cue is repositioned when frames are deleted or inserted to the left of it [...] I personally don't see this as a Primary T/C assignment, but only as a meaningful shift on the Sequence T/C timeline.

I was testing something.
If I'm not mistaken, then the sequence cue seems to refer to the original V1 sequence track. When I insert a new V1 track above it, the cue is only moved when I delete or insert frames in V2 track. The sequence cue is not moved if I only delete or insert frames into the new V1 track when the V2 track is locked. This also seems to apply to Sequence Cue, which were added after the creation of the new V1 track.

This doesn't make the documentation any easier.

What do you think of the idea of being able to change the assignment in the cue panel at any time? www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=6&id=194527&Itemid=81#194551
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Last Edit: 1 week ago by schrauber.

Re: Cue Marker positions 1 week ago #194601

  • hugly
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I think that it is a good idea to assign a cue marker either to primary T/C or sequence T/C and to be able to switch.

I can imagine, especially on commercial productions, that some cue markers sticking to sequence T/C are needed, more frequently I think, people assign markers to a certain frame, read: to primary T/C.

What puts complexity into cue markers sticking to primary T/C is that multiple tracks are (can be) present. Which one to display in a single row and how to set? There's software which display the cue markers on the tracks, but that's immensely away from current design.
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Last Edit: 1 week ago by hugly.

Re: Cue Marker positions 6 days, 22 hours ago #194606

  • schrauber
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A similar problem exists with Clip-Cue.
To see which Clip the Cue comes from, I either use different Cue colors or / and add a hint to the Cue in the text. If the source name were automatically displayed in a column in the Cue list, it would make my work easier.
For Sequence Cue, maybe the same column could be used to display / select the assignment to Primary T/C, or Sequence T/C?

Since version 14 removed the visible track assignment from the timeline and the Cue list, I'm afraid that Lightworks has a different strategy.

I'm also unsure whether the positioning of cues, cuts, segments is internally directly linked to the Sequence T/C or frame number, or whether a reference track is always required? A reference track might explain that a sequence always contains at least one video track and some problems in the beta phase with track assignment?
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