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TOPIC: My Thoughts On Using DaVinci Resolve

Re: My Thoughts On Using DaVinci Resolve 8 months ago #174592

  • ArteD
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David Rasberry wrote:
If I do roundtrips between Lighworks and Resolve it is cuts only work prints, no effects, just for refining grades and exporting new DI's.


Same here. I think it's the best way, if you are going to go into Resolve. Avoids a lot of headaches.

Sometimes after I have finished a cut or if I want to see a sequence with the proper transitions, I will make a temporary version of that with transitions and any effects I may need, so I can watch it before locking picture. Lightworks makes it very easy to do so.

But once picture is locked and it's to be sent to Resolve for finishing, it's straight cuts only. Then it never gets back to Lightworks. The final and finished show is exported from Resolve.
I'm not employed by or officially represent Editshare or Lightworks. I'm just a Lightworks user.
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Re: My Thoughts On Using DaVinci Resolve 8 months ago #174593

  • ArteD
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Tamerlin wrote:
hugly wrote:
All those clumsy and incomplete round trips between different platforms (audio and video) are the strongest argument for keeping everything in one place, especially for small business (and of course amateurs) - the current approach of Resolve.


You just nailed it. That's Resolve's biggest win: workflow. No conforming is a HUGE deal for a LOT of people. Since Resolve is so ridiculously inexpensive, the fact that you can build a workflow around Resolve for $300/seat and NEVER have to worry about a conform means that it's huge time saver for independent films... and it's also the most use suite in Hollywood.

The rest of industry needs to step it up, big time, or be steamrolled.

Some of the industry is stepping up. Flow Story works ironically a lot better with Avid and Premiere (ick) than it does with LightWorks, because it's built around the simplified Story version of LightWorks. There's no color grading solution in there right now AFAIK, so I'm hoping that EditShare will be able to get Assimilate or Digital Vision on board to integrate their color suites with Flow Story so that I'd be able to just drag and drop a sequence into Scratch (or eventually also Nucoda) and start grading.

Maybe EditShare can get the Foundry on board to support Nuke before the Black Magic juggernaut steamrolls that also.


On paper, that would be the case. The workflow would be just winning.

But in reality, one of the biggest weakness of what Resolve is becoming is that no application within the suite was designed to work and interact with each other. They are just buying out applications and shoving them into Resolve. Reminds of what Apple did with the Final Cut Suite way back when.

One of the great things about Lightworks and the Console is that the software was designed to work around the Console. And the whole editing workflow was designed to work around feature film editing, which is why it is so great for narrative and long form. It's a specialist tool. It's the same thing which makes Resolve, the color grading suite not the Swiss-army-knife suite, so great. It was designed to grade and the hardware controllers were not an after thought.

This is not the case with the current Resolve suite. Nothing was designed to work together and they are trying to patch things up. To be the way you are talking it would have to be all seamless. But it's not. Again, much like with Final Cut Studio, every time you switch tabs it feels more like you are just in another program than it does you are in a single piece suite. Sure the interface style has at least been made to look similar, which Apple never really bothered doing. But Resolve as is it's just a step above the integration between the Adobe products or even the prior mentioned Final Cut Suite. It doesn't feel like a single product and as a smooth well oiled machine.For that Blackmagic would have to have designed all applications from the ground up to work together and be part of a suite.

So things are not exactly what I would call optimized. It doesn't help that the editing part seems to be being develop in house. Blackmagic doesn't have any experience in editing and it shows and copying others can only go so far. Just copying the best features of other products without having a solid philosophy to tie them together doesn't really work once you look past the cheap price and start looking at it as a high end professional tool. Again Lightworks works so well because it was designed around a solid philosophy. It didn't take the best parts of Avid, the Editdroid (even if it was chronologically possible) and mushed it in a piece of software. It was designed with a goal and philosophy. Yes, Lightworks can actually lose that too if Lightworks tries to be too much of a jack of all trades tool.

Resolve is not a Blackmagic child. They bought it. Same with Fusion and Fairlight. They were already great applications before Blackmagic ever touched them. This is much easier than designing something from the ground up. Their NLE is nowhere as good as Lightworks or even Avid to be honest. And I'm not an Avid fan at all. Their lack of experience is showing in their NLE as it shows in their cameras. It's clear they have the good intentions, the guts and the financial resources. But the know-how seem to be lacking in most things designed in house. At least their cameras and their NLE. It's sometimes seen as just thinking outside of the box. But as time goes by it shows to be more like trial and error.

So as is, Resolve is not the one stop shop in the sense you speak of. Yes, it's a cheap way to get all that power under the same roof. But not necessarily the most efficient way. Just because everything is under the same roof doesn't mean it will be the most efficient. I much prefer editing in Lightorks and use Resolve only as a finishing tool. I'm much faster and efficient that way. Especially for narrative or long form projects. I only cut directly in Resolve for short stuff, and even so, only because Lightworks doesn't support my current main codec. Or I would cut everything in Lightworks! So for short projects I don't bother transcoding so I can edit in Lightworks. I just do it directly in Resolve.

The addition of Fusion and Fairlight is a welcome addition as I have always used the Lightworks Fusion link to do any effects. Now I don't have to, since I use Resolve as a finishing tool anyway. I never do any effects inside Ligthworks. Same thing with audio. I always had audio done outside of Lightworks.

My workflow has always been media management and editing in Lightworks, use the Fusion link to do any effects, green screen and compositing, lock picture and export to Resolve. Grade, finish, do titles and whatever is needed, import the finished audio track, conform all and export the final show. Now with Fusion and Fairlight that's all much easier. But my media management and editing for narrative and long form will still be done in Lightworks for the foreseeable future. Ligthworks, especially with the Console, is unbeatable foe editing. To the point of it being so faást and efficient that it offsets any time taken to export to Resolve. If editing directly in Resolve I wouldn't even be half way through by the time I'm done in Lightworks.

So the Resolve suite is not the most efficient way. At least not yet. Lightworks is only getting steamrolled by Resolve if Lightworks decides it can compete with the juggernaut in being a Swiss-army_knife. But if Lightworks stays a specialist tool, Resolve will not steamroll it. It can't do what Lightworks does, the way Lightworks does it and as fast as Lightworks does it.
I'm not employed by or officially represent Editshare or Lightworks. I'm just a Lightworks user.
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Re: My Thoughts On Using DaVinci Resolve 8 months ago #174594

With respect to grading alone, Resolve is much more sophisticated than Lightworks.
Color managed correct colorspace conversions between multiple different camera standards and display standards is a major feature. Lightworks is REC709 colorspace only.
Resolve supports ACES standard workflows for high end projects.
After color management, grading tools are node based, but the tools and the scopes are far more extensive and refined. It also accepts OFX plugins.
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Re: My Thoughts On Using DaVinci Resolve 8 months ago #174596

  • timzett
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David Rasberry wrote:
...the tools and the scopes are far more extensive and refined...
...which wants me repeat my question again if Resolves offers a waveform monitoring (not the RGP parade) and if yes, how it looks like and whether it is fully resizable.
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Last Edit: 8 months ago by timzett.
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Re: My Thoughts On Using DaVinci Resolve 8 months ago #174598

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I assumed that you've Resolve installed and your question earlier's been rhetoric.

Yes, they do have a Waveform scope and yes, it's fully resizable and, it's detachable from main window and movable around extended desktops away from main window.

This shows the available views all at once 1:1 in 1825 x 1055 pixels:

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Last Edit: 8 months ago by hugly.
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Re: My Thoughts On Using DaVinci Resolve 8 months ago #174613

  • timzett
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Thanks for the screenshot, looks nice so far.
The vectorscope doesn't seem to - literally - resolve quite detailled, only 2 spots in this case. Can it be zoomed?

hugly wrote:
I assumed that you've Resolve installed and your question earlier's been rhetoric.
Nope: I had it installed, maybe around a year ago as far as I remember. But I never even took a closer look at it.
In the end I uninstalled it again, i.e. because I have this habbit of keeping my systems free of unused ballast.
I guess my personal grading workflow in Lightworks worked well enough for me until now
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Last Edit: 8 months ago by timzett.
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Re: My Thoughts On Using DaVinci Resolve 8 months ago #174615

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timzett wrote:
The vectorscope doesn't seem to - literally - resolve quite detailled, only 2 spots in this case. Can it be zoomed?

That's the picture the viewers operate on.

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Beside of the combined view shown above, single views for each scope can be selected and the window showing the scope is scalable as described earlier.

In my view, it's really worth to keep an eye on Resolve, because it has some useful functions beside of grading, even when using Lightworks mainly.
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Re: My Thoughts On Using DaVinci Resolve 8 months ago #174616

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For me, not size and scalability of the scopes in Lightworks is the major problem, but usability of the controls of the effects engine in general, not only for color correction, especially if one knows the look and feel of Resolve's controls.
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Last Edit: 8 months ago by hugly.
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Re: My Thoughts On Using DaVinci Resolve 7 months, 4 weeks ago #174649

  • Tamerlin
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timzett wrote:

But to get back on track, and to something on which I was always curious but never satisfied: Can anyone with some Resolve experience tell me what is so convincing only looking at its color grading section, compared to Lightworks?
I mean Lightworks has dozens of different options on how you perform your grade, like curves, HSV, RGB, automation, user FX etc. etc.
So given you don't have this fancy and over-expensive hardware stuff but instead, only a keyboard and a mouse, why is Resolve so much better than Lightworks for grading?


There are a lot of functions in Resolve for managing grades, comparing grades on two clips to facilitate matching looks, copying grades (or partial) grades from one clip to another, grouping clips to grade them all at once, and that sort of thing. Also Resolve's secondaries, like power windows + trackers are phenomenal, something that Lightworks isn't really in the ballpark on.

In other words, a lot of stuff that's common in color grading applications that NLEs generally don't have.
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Re: My Thoughts On Using DaVinci Resolve 7 months, 4 weeks ago #174656

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Tamerlin wrote:
In other words, a lot of stuff that's common in color grading applications that NLEs generally don't have.

Timzett,

I'd suggest watching this video.



I've posted it already earlier, but you might have missed it among all other videos posted there. You'll see some features not available with Lightworks. It's truly worth the time watching.
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Last Edit: 7 months, 4 weeks ago by hugly.
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Re: My Thoughts On Using DaVinci Resolve 7 months, 4 weeks ago #174657

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timzett wrote:
The vectorscope doesn't seem to - literally - resolve quite detailled, only 2 spots in this case.

This video explains the different scopes, roughly in short words:



FWIW

A practical way how to use scopes together with a colour target to calibrate adjust exposure of a camera (with some Premiere stuff afterward which can be done with Lightworks as well):


Worth watching - this guy knows and shows what he's talking about.
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Last Edit: 7 months, 4 weeks ago by hugly.
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Re: My Thoughts On Using DaVinci Resolve 7 months, 4 weeks ago #174678

  • timzett
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Thanks Hugly for the videos (partially again).
I just watched the first two, and especially regarding Resolve I "learned" the following so far:

  • The "Match shots" tool is very good and IMO indispensable. And in its outcome it comes close to what I suggested here - unfortunately just one more thing which got missed in Lightworks but others doing it instead: Introduce "Normalize video" for BT.709 full and broadcast-safe settings
  • The scopes in Resolve seem to be better than the ones in Lightworks
  • I also "learned" that with all the available options in Resolve at the color grading section, you will have to spend more time on your production to take use of them, e.g. when it comes to selective areas within a frame.
    The nodes section causes confusion to me, even though it's definitely providing more flexibility
  • Many of the area-related correction methods seem to cause rather unnatural results to me, at least that's what the promotional video illustrates. Maybe one may get better results yet

All in all I am wondering also whether one might be able to distinguish a production graded in Resolve, compared to one done in Lightworks. Given that in every application I am fully using all options in such a scenario, I still think there will be no visual advantage towards Resolve but probably one for more sophisticated grading workflow.
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Last Edit: 7 months, 4 weeks ago by timzett.
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Re: My Thoughts On Using DaVinci Resolve 7 months, 4 weeks ago #174681

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timzett wrote:
Thanks Hugly for the videos (partially again).

What part didn't you like?
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Last Edit: 7 months, 4 weeks ago by hugly.
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Re: My Thoughts On Using DaVinci Resolve 7 months, 4 weeks ago #174682

  • timzett
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All is well - I just meant that the first video you said you posted it already before - so for this one "once again"
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Re: My Thoughts On Using DaVinci Resolve 7 months, 4 weeks ago #174685

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timzett wrote:
All in all I am wondering also whether one might be able to distinguish a production graded in Resolve, compared to one done in Lightworks. Given that in every application I am fully using all options in such a scenario, I still think there will be no visual advantage towards Resolve but probably one for more sophisticated grading workflow.

Matching shots is what colorists do the whole day. Would they use Lightworks for this?

Try changing the color of the airplane as shown in the video above in Lightworks. Would that be possible in a reasonable (comparable) time?
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