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TOPIC: Basic Feature: Ability to hide any track, independent of others

Basic Feature: Ability to hide any track, independent of others 1 month, 3 weeks ago #229733

  • digitallysane
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Right now you can't hide a video track if the tracks above it are not hidden (deselected) as well.

This means that in any timeline with multiple video tracks, it's only V1 that acts in a predictable way (Enabled=visible, disabled=hidden). The rest of the tracks are dependent on the status of all the tracks above them.

This is first: totally counter-intuitive and second: not very useful.

We should have a consistent behaviour for the visibility of the track.

Either the enable/disable* switch controls visibility for ALL tracks, or there should be another control (like Mute for Audio tracks) that controls visibility independent of selection*.

* the vocabulary for this is very inconsistent, both in the GUI and in the docs. Are the tracks Selected/Deselected? Are they Enabled/Disabled?
Last Edit: 1 month, 3 weeks ago by digitallysane.

Re: Basic Feature: Ability to hide any track, independent of others 1 month, 3 weeks ago #229747

  • RWAV
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That is not correct.

If all V tracks are elected LW will display the top selected track and all others below


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If no V tracks are selected LW will behave the same as for 'all selected'


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If an intermediate track is seleced LW will display that track and all below (selected or not) It will not show the deselected upper track(s)


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LW V track display behaviour is completely sensible and (subject to in-development version possible inconsistencies) predictable.

Some time ago we posted a comprehensive look at all of this - but unfortunately probably in a no longer accessible Beta Forum. From memory the only LW special consideration was that a Pass-Through track restarted the count - but would have to double check the details that information - when time allows.
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Re: Basic Feature: Ability to hide any track, independent of others 1 month, 3 weeks ago #229749

  • jwrl
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Multiple tracks are commonly used in effects work. With a node-based effects system isolating one track for display may not be a particularly sensible thing to do. Behaviour will also be affected by whether effects are folded or unfolded, what the effect's disabled state is, etc.

I know that nowadays people tend often to cut by placing shots across multiple layers, whereas when I learned it was from the standpoint of what is now called a flattened edit, i.e., all clips were on the same layer. If there is enough need to support soloing or muting tracks for that reason it may be possible to do. But what in practice it would actually tell you is another thing altogether.
Last Edit: 1 month, 3 weeks ago by jwrl.

Re: Basic Feature: Ability to hide any track, independent of others 1 month, 3 weeks ago #229752

  • RWAV
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jwrl wrote:
I know that nowadays people tend often to cut by placing shots across multiple layers ---
Also users too often use multiple tracks, they possibly see as 'layers', to place the same clip. That is a definite no-no in terms of system performance.

In LW only one instance of a clip is needed to use it multiple times.

An oldie but still relevant.

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This was the user's result at that time - see at about 2min15 sec.

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Last Edit: 1 month, 3 weeks ago by RWAV.

Re: Basic Feature: Ability to hide any track, independent of others 1 month, 3 weeks ago #229753

  • David Rasberry
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If you have clips on several tracks included in an effects stack, the end product of the effects stack is rendered on the top most active track involved regardless of whether the lower tracks are active or not unless you disable the effects themselves.
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Re: Basic Feature: Ability to hide any track, independent of others 1 month, 3 weeks ago #229754

  • RWAV
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Yes, that's right. The LW tracks address outputs which are overridden by the VFX routing scheme.

The first step in the first video posted was turning off the VFX tracks - to make the point - perhaps not well enough.
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Re: Basic Feature: Ability to hide any track, independent of others 1 month, 3 weeks ago #229763

  • digitallysane
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RWAV wrote:
That is not correct.

It is.

RWAV wrote:
LW V track display behaviour is completely sensible and (subject to in-development version possible inconsistencies) predictable.

I strongly disagree. Is not sensible at all (both in its logic and in what a user expects the software to do). It's also not in line with how any other software operates (and no, it's not a quality in this case, nor "LW is just different". It's lacking a fundamental, common sense feature that anyone else has and that is expected behaviour of a track based software).

As for predictable: for someone expecting it to just behave in a sensible way? Absolutely not. AFTER you got it, yes. It's infuriating but predictable.

You have the topmost track (V1) behaving as anyone would expect (diabled=hidden). Then you go to a lower track and it doesn't do that. It took me some time to figure out what's actually happening (and as usual, this is not documented anywhere).

How this behaviour could be described as "sensible" is beyond me:


I feel this kind of quirks have kept a lot of people away (and I'm talking about pros), much more than UI, layouts and workflows.

Re: Basic Feature: Ability to hide any track, independent of others 1 month, 3 weeks ago #229764

  • digitallysane
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jwrl wrote:
Multiple tracks are commonly used in effects work. With a node-based effects system isolating one track for display may not be a particularly sensible thing to do. Behaviour will also be affected by whether effects are folded or unfolded, what the effect's disabled state is, etc.

I don't feel this is good reason to not have a fundamental feature that is used very often.
It's the VFX workflow that need to adapt to this, not the other way around. And in nodal apps there are ways to do that. You can just replace the hidden track with a big red X for example.

jwrl wrote:
I know that nowadays people tend often to cut by placing shots across multiple layers, whereas when I learned it was from the standpoint of what is now called a flattened edit, i.e., all clips were on the same layer. If there is enough need to support soloing or muting tracks for that reason it may be possible to do. But what in practice it would actually tell you is another thing altogether.

Well, everybody works nowadays in multiple track projects, and is normal considering the nature of the projects. It's simply impossible to work in a single track when your project has multiple VFX shot versions and so on.

As for my particular case, I do animation.
Animation edits are always multitrack, cause they follow the "build up" of the movie: you start with the storyboard/animatic, then you add a track with the blocking/previz, then a track for the rough animation, then a track for finished animation, then a track for lighting & rendering, then a track for finished, composited shots. Th edit itself was done on one track, but the project needs tons. And you DO switch among them like crazy.
An example here: www.provideocoalition.com/aotc-toy-story-4/

But the same goes even when I have to do a VFX intensive 30sec commercial.
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