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TOPIC: Effect parameter settings: Prevent unwanted interactions between effects.

Effect parameter settings: Prevent unwanted interactions between effects. 3 weeks, 2 days ago #226147

  • schrauber
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Case 1:

In this thread I described a strange interaction between the 3D DVE effect, and user effects that use multiple position parameter settings:
schrauber wrote:
PolyMask effects:

After I added a 3D DVE effect behind a PolyMask effect in the routing, the adjustment behavior of the position parameters using the points in the preview window changed extremely. A minimal change with the mouse, lets the parameters jump far into the negative range. When I disable the 3D DVE effect, the behavior is as expected. See the video for details:
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For me this strange interaction looks like a Lightworks bug, but maybe @khaver, @jwrl, or someone else sees a problem in the PolyMask code?


jwrl test it in the following post of this other thread.
jwrl wrote:
.. I don't believe that the problem lies with the effect. I'm not sure that it could even be described as a bug in the Lightworks effects engine, but is more of a side effect of the way that the pins are displayed on screen. ..
... but I would be happy if this unexpected and unwanted behavior would not occur.

I could imagine that it would also happen with other types of effects that use multiple position parameters, but I haven't tested it.
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Software: Lightworks 2020.1.1 & Beta 2021.x; || Windows 10 Home 1909, 64 Bit
Hardware: Intel i5-4440 (3,1 GHz); || RAM: 8 GB; || Intel HD Graphics 4600 (can use max. 2 GB of shared RAM)
Last Edit: 3 weeks, 2 days ago by schrauber.

Re: Effect parameter settings: Prevent unwanted interactions between effects. 3 weeks, 2 days ago #226150

  • schrauber
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Case 2:

In other cases, if in several effects the respective position parameters are at identical positions, moving one point on the viewer will cause the positions in both or more effects to be shifted. This is not surprising, and in some cases may even be desirable. Nevertheless, it often leads to confusion, especially if the user has not noticed or forgotten this behavior.
Maybe in these cases, a small hint could be displayed to inform the user that this action changes the parameters in several effects at once?
Maybe even a drop-down menu on the point in the viewer to select the parameters ? ... although I know that there are other ways for the user to select the desired parameter points.
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Software: Lightworks 2020.1.1 & Beta 2021.x; || Windows 10 Home 1909, 64 Bit
Hardware: Intel i5-4440 (3,1 GHz); || RAM: 8 GB; || Intel HD Graphics 4600 (can use max. 2 GB of shared RAM)

Re: Effect parameter settings: Prevent unwanted interactions between effects. 3 weeks, 1 day ago #226171

  • RWAV
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Surely a user needs to take some responsibility for working with effects and being sure they are manipulating the correct VFX nodes would be pretty high up on the list. The solution to the 'problem' is already there - use the appropriate tools

LW is not a wise seer able to divine every users every move and motive and respond with a drop down whether it is needed or not.

In both Flexible and Fixed VFX Graph view provides absolute confirmation as to which parameter is being tweaked and the ability select multiple nodes across multiple parameters.

Really more useful to new users than a bespoke drop-down would be if in Fixed when switching to VFX mode it opened on the graphs panel - just to show it to users who may otherwise never open that tab.
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Re: Effect parameter settings: Prevent unwanted interactions between effects. 3 weeks, 1 day ago #226178

  • jwrl
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jwrl wrote:
.. I don't believe that the problem lies with the effect. I'm not sure that it could even be described as a bug in the Lightworks effects engine, but is more of a side effect of the way that the pins are displayed on screen. ..

Actually, I have to revise that opinion. In tests with the 2D DVE and with user DVE effects I obtained different results. The 3D DVE is the only effect to behave that way.

When using the Lightworks 2D DVE the PolyMask pins track the scaling and position settings reliably. Using any of the user DVE effects breaks the pin tracking also, but without the extremely unpredictable movement seen with the 3D DVE. Tests replacing the PolyMask effects with other crop and vignette effects produced the same results.
Last Edit: 3 weeks, 1 day ago by jwrl.

Re: Effect parameter settings: Prevent unwanted interactions between effects. 3 weeks, 1 day ago #226187

  • arniepix
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That's interesting. I wonder if that's because of the use of the Z axis for scaling?

Logically, when you scale with the 2D DVE, you're actually scaling the clip. But when you move a clip along the Z axis with the 3D DVE, your not technically scaling it, you're moving it in relation to an imaginary camera. And that camera DOESN'T change it's scale.

Just my oddball video effect logic at play.
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Re: Effect parameter settings: Prevent unwanted interactions between effects. 3 weeks, 1 day ago #226189

  • jwrl
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Not oddball at all. I think that is part of the problem. The effect works in 3D space, and unless the pins do too they can't possibly track.

Re: Effect parameter settings: Prevent unwanted interactions between effects. 3 weeks, 1 day ago #226190

  • RWAV
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--- and the pivot point can be changed in the 3D DVE - with everything key-frame-able - try tracking that in a 2D efffect
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Re: Effect parameter settings: Prevent unwanted interactions between effects. 3 weeks, 1 day ago #226191

  • jwrl
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From another thread that I posted in earlier:

jwrl wrote:
Remember that the 3D DVE has to contend with X, Y and Z rotation as well as adjustable pivot points in addition to the much simpler X-Y geometry adjustments in the 2D DVE.
Last Edit: 3 weeks, 1 day ago by jwrl.
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