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TOPIC: How to solve: "There is insufficient incoming outgoing... to add a transition here"

How to solve: "There is insufficient incoming outgoing... to add a transition here" 4 months ago #218653

  • chj
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I try to add a 24 frame dissolve transition between 2 adjacent clips, each of length +1 minute. The cursor is at the transition point. The selector is "white" (not yellow). I rightclick to add transition.

I get this rejection that I do not understand. What are the possible reasons for this message to occur?

Thanks!

Re: How to solve: "There is insufficient incoming outgoing... to add a transition here" 4 months ago #218655

  • jwrl
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The reason is that there is insufficient media available to add the transition. Lightworks cannot invent media to fill a dissolve where no media exists. Check out The V14/14.5/2020.1 Transition Error Message Meanings. It should help.

Re: How to solve: "There is insufficient incoming outgoing... to add a transition here" 4 months ago #218656

  • chj
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Where I want to put the 24 frame transition, i.e. between two adjacent clips, there is more than one minute of video on both sides. Therefore, can you please elaborate what you mean with "insufficient"?

Also, yesterday, in an other video project, I could add a dissolve transition at the start of the first clip (so as to create a fade in effect at the start of the video I am making). Today, in a new project, I cannot do that (either).

I am confused.

Snapshot

1. TODAY's Project. Not possible to add transition (as I said, I also tried between two clips, but this image is for the start of the clip attempt)
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2. YESTERDAY's project: Possible
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Last Edit: 4 months ago by chj. Reason: improve

Re: How to solve: "There is insufficient incoming outgoing... to add a transition here" 4 months ago #218659

  • briandrys
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You need to have unused media on either side of the transition. This handle of excess media is in the bin, if you've put the whole clip into the timeline this media is no longer available to create half of the overlap.

I would go through the sticky again, until you can picture what's going on in your mind. There are workarounds towards the end in case you've used the whole clip in the timeline.

Re: How to solve: "There is insufficient incoming outgoing... to add a transition here" 4 months ago #218660

  • briandrys
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If using a fade in, you need to set the dissolve to begin the start of the transition at the first frame of the clip. If doing a fast fade out and fade in between two clips you need to have one frame of blank timeline between them.

While with a standard transition it's common to have it centred between the two clips

Re: How to solve: "There is insufficient incoming outgoing... to add a transition here" 4 months ago #218661

  • chj
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I made a small cut at the start of the clip, so as to allow for a transition, and now I was allowed to add a transition. See snap.

My user need is to add 3 complete clips with a transition in between, simply to make the end result more nice. I cannot do that.

This must be a bug. Can I report it somewhere?


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Re: How to solve: "There is insufficient incoming outgoing... to add a transition here" 4 months ago #218662

  • briandrys
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If placing clips at the beginning of the sequence, put the playhead at the start and drag the required clips into the sequence viewer, from there they will drop into the timeline. When the clips are in position, apply the transitions.

Remember to have handles of unused media if you're dissolving between the clips.

Currently this appears to be an operational issue, rather than a bug.

Re: How to solve: "There is insufficient incoming outgoing... to add a transition here" 4 months ago #218663

  • chj
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Please explain "handles of unused media", I don't understand what you mean. What are "Handles" and what is "unused media"? The latter I guess is some source files not yet used in the timeline sequence?

(Moreover, I did exactly what you describe. Playhead at start, dragging the 3 clips to the timeline. Strange to say, they were not put at the cursor position, but some seconds out on the timeline. I solved that by dragging one and one clip into the timeline.)

My problem was solved with these workarounds. Thanks for info.
Last Edit: 4 months ago by chj.

Re: How to solve: "There is insufficient incoming outgoing... to add a transition here" 4 months ago #218664

  • chj
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For the record, I do not understand why this error message is logic and helpful to a user in confusion. It insist on something that is clearly not the case. There IS sufficient media on either side of the transition point. Hope the programmer reads this and implement a way to simply add a transition whenever and wherever. Operational issue? Well,....
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Re: How to solve: "There is insufficient incoming outgoing... to add a transition here" 4 months ago #218665

  • briandrys
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chj wrote:
Please explain "handles of unused media", I don't understand what you mean. What are "Handles" and what is "unused media"? The latter I guess is some source files not yet used in the timeline sequence?


The sticky explains in some detail, but if you picture the way film editors laid this out when working with a cutting print. If they wanted to put in a dissolve they would make sure that they had film after the mid point of the dissolve for the outgoing shot and before in the incoming shot, They would splice these two clips together after putting the removed sections back into the bin (the "handles".

They would then draw a dissolve symbol on the two spliced clips the length of the dissolve. When they were conforming the negative to match the editors print, they would leave an overlap at these two clips, so that a dissolve could be created when a print was made. The NLE does the same thing except you don't need to wait for the print.

I'm not sure what you're doing with the playhead, because the clips will drop in precisely at the playhead if you drag the clips into the sequence viewer. It's more accurate than dragging them straight into the timeline.
Last Edit: 4 months ago by briandrys.

Re: How to solve: "There is insufficient incoming outgoing... to add a transition here" 4 months ago #218666

  • jwrl
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Try trimming the cut point. Click on the cut in the timeline so that you see square brackets on either side. Try moving the cut point using the < and > keys If you can't move it you have insufficient media to do a dissolve or other transition. If you can move it in both directions then it's a bug. If you can't it's not a bug and Lightworks is telling you precisely what's wrong.
Last Edit: 4 months ago by jwrl.

Re: How to solve: "There is insufficient incoming outgoing... to add a transition here" 4 months ago #218667

  • chj
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In case others have the same problem instructing LKWS to add transitions to WHOLE clips that has been dragged to the timeline, here is a way I found:

1. Make a dummy video track
2. Put a cutout of a clip (NOT the whole clip!) on that track
3. You are now allowed to add transitions to that clip even if there is clearly unsufficient content on the left and right side, respectively. In this context, disregard the error message that you get when you are trying the same on a WHOLE clip.
4. To add transitions to your non-dummy tracks that contains whole clips, just ctrl click on the transition on the dummy track, and drag a copy of that transition to whereever you want it. Like in this snap, where one see a separate transition to the right that was created this way.
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Re: How to solve: "There is insufficient incoming outgoing... to add a transition here" 4 months ago #218668

  • briandrys
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That's making life very complicated. If you're stuck because you put the whole of a clip or subclip into the timeline, there are a number of solutions.

www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=7&id=143120&Itemid=81#143141

If you think ahead, the issue can generally be avoided and possible timing side effects be prevented.

Re: How to solve: "There is insufficient incoming outgoing... to add a transition here" 4 months ago #218675

  • jwrl
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Above all, as I said earlier, Lightworks cannot invent media to fill a transition where no media exists. The technique that you described is not only unnecessarily complex, it runs the risk of having one or both of your clips cut off or on part way through the dissolve. Not very desirable, I would have thought.

Re: How to solve: "There is insufficient incoming outgoing... to add a transition here" 4 months ago #218682

  • pfbr6a
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I'm not going to disagree that the message you see is not as helpful as it could be, but the reason for it is entirely logical (and not a bug), and maybe I can help clarify that by approaching it in a slightly different way.

Firstly, the truth is that if you edit two whole clips together end-to-start, you can't make a dissolve between them. There has to be some overlap.

The confusion arises because but a dissolve actually involves playing two clips at once, but the timeline shows them to you on a single track without showing that. Instead, consider how it would look if you had to put your clips on two different tracks. Your 'whole-clip' edit would then look like this:

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It's immediately clear that you can't turn that into a dissolve, because for the first half the second clip hasn't started yet, and for the second half the first clip is over already. All you'd see is a fade-out followed by a fade-in.

Instead, you have to overlap the clips like this:

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The overlap has to be at least the length of the dissolve. Now, the end of the first clip and the beginning of the second can play at the same time, and your dissolve works.

Lightworks doesn't demand that you specify two video tracks, but internally that's what's being played: the message that you are seeing is simply a warning that there isn't enough overlap. It could certainly be expressed more fully, but it is the truth.

How do you avoid the problem? One way or another, you have to make sure that your cuts are not at the beginning/end of the clips, but at least the length of the dissolve later/sooner. You can do this in (at least) two ways: suppose you want to have nice 1-second dissolves between each clip:

1/ For each clip, mark the in-point (at least) 1 second from the start. mark the out-point (at least) 1 second from the end. Add the clip by using the insert or add buttons or turning it into a tile and dragging it.

2/ Alternatively, just put all the clips end to end, but afterwards, for everay cut where you want a dissolve, make a selection starting 1 second before the cut and finishing 1 second after it. Then remove the selection by pressing the delete button.

In either case, the clips are now effectively overlapped, and you can add a dissolve of any length up to one second, centred on the cut (the minimum lengths would be slightly different for dissolves from or to the cut-point, but the principle is the same.

Thinking about the confusing message (and I still sometimes get confused by it myself), it wouldn't be difficult for the program to expain in more detail - eg. "For this dissolve, the in-point of shot "The Next one" needs to be no earlier than (timecode) ".

Maybe this could be added sometime.
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