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TOPIC: Smooth Speed Adjustments

Re: Smooth Speed Adjustments 6 days, 3 hours ago #209021

  • timzett
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Re: Smooth Speed Adjustments 6 days ago #209027

  • RWAV
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hugly wrote:
What I can imagine is some kind of OFX plugin, e.g. Twixtor (over 300 Euro), but I'm not sure if that's a real game changer, compared with what Boris already provides.


As a Twixtor, and other RE:Vision Effects plug-ins, user under DigitalFusion/Fusion as LW Assistant Applications we can attest to the proposition Twixtor is well above many other mentioned appraoches.

Foundry used to have a coparable version but that was dropped in favour of enabling Twixtor as a Nuke plug-in; that is a substantial endorsement Twixtor (and other RE:Vision Effects products).

Basic frame interpolations is quite limited in what it can do, Twixtor's motion estimation is as good as there is. If speed changes are an important requirement have a look at the Twixtor product pages.

revisionfx.com/gallery/#twixtor

Of course any speed change method works only by creating new imagery, in effect everything made is an artefact.

There are well known intrusive and difficult to supress artefacts. RE:Vision Effects address the problem quite openly when discussing one of the main culprits we see with any 'motion estimation' based tool. "Twixtor is more accurate and exhibits fewer artifacts when there are objects crossing in the scene. This means less tearing and stretching of objects as they cross or go out of the frame".

LW is a professional product, the fact that add-ons are at cost is not relevant; the quality of the tool is of primary importance. Probably time to abandon the 'it must be free' mentality and have more in depth discussion about commercial products.
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Re: Smooth Speed Adjustments 5 days, 16 hours ago #209036

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I think the easiest way to create good looking slow motion is recording at high frame rates.

Nowadays, almost any camera can capture high speed footage. The baseball sample from above was captured on a mobile phone at 240 fps.

The Sony RX100 IV for instance supports up to 1000 fps, not at full resolution, but at a reasonable price with quite impressive results:

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Re: Smooth Speed Adjustments 5 days, 15 hours ago #209037

  • jwrl
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This thread isn't about using high frame rates, it's about ramping from one speed to another. You really are moving off topic. I know you will attempt to justify doing that, but the title says it all: "Smooth Speed Adjustments". Higher shooting speeds will not achieve that.
Last Edit: 5 days, 15 hours ago by jwrl.

Re: Smooth Speed Adjustments 5 days, 15 hours ago #209039

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High frame rate is my answer to frame interpolation, mentioned in timzetts post, and RWAV's explanation on Twixtor.
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Re: Smooth Speed Adjustments 5 days, 14 hours ago #209040

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Since there have been questions, I promised very early in this discussion to show manually created speed ramps. I made a screen recording that shows how this can look. I think, it's much easier to create good looking slow motion with speed ramps, manually created or not, on high speed footage.

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Last Edit: 5 days, 14 hours ago by hugly.

Re: Smooth Speed Adjustments 5 days, 14 hours ago #209043

  • briandrys
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You can shoot at a high frame rate and slow this to a standard frame rate in post from which you ramp up to the recorded frame rate.

Bear in mind that this high frame rate will have less motion blur than when filmed at standard frame rate (assuming a 180 degree shutter), so you may have to add motion blur in post so that it matches the shots around it. If you don't do this, you're limited to shooting at twice the normal frame rate, if you go much above this the lack of motion blur does become increasingly obvious (depending on the action).

Re: Smooth Speed Adjustments 5 days, 14 hours ago #209047

  • hugly
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I wonder why I'm the only one in this discussion posting video samples to show what I'm talking about?
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Last Edit: 5 days, 13 hours ago by hugly.

Re: Smooth Speed Adjustments 5 days, 13 hours ago #209053

  • RWAV
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High-speed/ultra high-speed shooting to produce a slomo effect is old-hat VFX dating back to specialised film cameras but perhaps not part of mainstream production.

Apparently the popcorn was shot at 1300fps - in the attached the first part is sped up in LW to more or less real time the second is the shooting frame rate played at 24fps.

This discussions is probably more about creating speed changes within normal production shooting.

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I wonder why I'm the only one in this discussion posting video samples to show what I'm talking about?
Because there has not yet been enough available time here to find some appropriate material; go to the Pro computer with a licenced Twixtor and Fusion; make a synthesised slow motion version. No lack of will.
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Re: Smooth Speed Adjustments 5 days, 13 hours ago #209056

  • hugly
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Impressive, exposure and white balance slightly off, but I like that popping popcorn - 1,300 fps or 30,000?
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Last Edit: 5 days, 13 hours ago by hugly.

Re: Smooth Speed Adjustments 5 days, 8 hours ago #209074

  • timzett
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RWAV wrote:
High-speed/ultra high-speed shooting to produce a slomo effect is old-hat VFX dating back to specialised film cameras but perhaps not part of mainstream production.
Exactly.
If one neither has a high speed cam nor a lot of light for the shoot, one needs a tool for getting decent results in post.
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Last Edit: 5 days, 8 hours ago by timzett.

Re: Smooth Speed Adjustments 5 days, 7 hours ago #209077

  • hugly
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timzett wrote:
If one neither has a high speed cam nor a lot of light for the shoot, one needs a tool for getting decent results in post.

Below, a sample created with my favorite tool for frame interpolation, state of the art for people with small wallets. A few clicks, best possible settings, and off we go.



You'll see some artifact when watching closely, but regarding that four out of five frames are artificial, truly not bad, not bad. What do you think?

The price for high quality: Preview in real time is impossible and rendering is very slow - over five minutes to create the 600 frames out of 120 source frames in HD.

I wonder if Twixtor can do it better, in terms of quality and speed, with the same source?

Edit: Just detected that I forgot to disable audio when rendering - sorry for the sound.
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Last Edit: 5 days, 7 hours ago by hugly.

Re: Smooth Speed Adjustments 4 days, 16 hours ago #209092

  • timzett
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The playback as such is fluent, which I'd expect for a paid tool for this particular scope.

However, for a Youtube Resolution of 1080p I find the entire video very blocky.
Do you have any idea what might be the cause for that?
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Last Edit: 4 days, 16 hours ago by timzett.

Re: Smooth Speed Adjustments 4 days, 12 hours ago #209099

  • hugly
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I don't see blocking here, so I cannot explain what you see. The source is one of my usual test files and not very sharp, because almost everything is moving in the scene.

In general, Youtube transcodes any uploaded material to their own highly compressed standards and they use adaptive streaming, controlled by the currently available bandwidth.
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Re: Smooth Speed Adjustments 4 days, 10 hours ago #209105

  • timzett
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You were right about the bandwidth: Just tried with another machine not connected to the Internet via VPN, and now the result is good
Lwks x64 14.6.0.0 beta (117868) pro license, on Windows 10

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